Tesla opened up in Netherlands

[Toodal00]

Teslas in the US and Korea have their proprietary ports, I think. I would love to know how Tesla would open up their chargers on said locations to other EV brands.

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[tutis]

I don’t own a Tesla but I understand some of their Superchargers can put out up to 250kW. Is there any particular reason why the 400V/150kW upgraded charger option for our Taycan is limited to 150kW when there are 400V networks that deliver greater power? Just wondering.

The Taycan has an 800v architecture. One of the benefits of that is the amps required throughout the car are lower than for a similarly powerful 400v system. The Taycan can do 270kw charging at 800v, which is about the same amps as for 150kw at 400v.

the whole cabling in the car would have needed to be thicker and heavier to accommodate for 250kw@400v. That would be nonsensical if the car was designed from the ground up for 800v

 

[whitex]

I don’t own a Tesla but I understand some of their Superchargers can put out up to 250kW. Is there any particular reason why the 400V/150kW upgraded charger option for our Taycan is limited to 150kW when there are 400V networks that deliver greater power? Just wondering.

I don't know the design details, but I would speculate that it has to do with the charging current. If the high voltage wiring, starting from the port all the way to the battery, are sized for 300KW at 800V, then it makes perfect sense that it can only handle 150KW at 400V. It would take twice the wire size and likely sizing other DC charger components to size it up for half the voltage at the same power.

EDIT: I see @tutis has a similar theory. Didn't see it before I responded.

 

[Scandinavian]

I'll humbly disagree - in that even if the EA stations are working (which is not often) they have too few stalls - vs. superchargers which tend to have 8, 12, 16, 24, 32 stalls…or more.

it's just a better network all around.

Agree with this. I charged a few times at fully occupied Ionity chargers with 4 stalls. On the site adjacent there were 20 Tesla Superchargers and not a single Tesla in sight. Very special sight.

 

[feye]

Does that mean we all need to tick the 150kw DC onboard booster option?

If you consider how much faster public charging developed here in China compared to SuC spending money on the wimp of EM, I would give that a no!

These are installed HPC charging piles per manufacturer in Germany. T already not relevant anymore!

These are installed HPC charging piles per manufacturer in Europe. All summed up together are more than what T has installed. In a year, T SuC also not relevant anymore.

 

[feye]

Agree with this. I charged a few times at fully occupied Ionity chargers with 4 stalls. On the site adjacent there were 20 Tesla Superchargers and not a single Tesla in sight. Very special sight.

That means the demand is there, which in turn means that the charging infrastructure will expand really rapidly in the coming years.

By the end of Sept. 2021, there were 2.223 million charging piles across China, up 56.8% from the same period last year.

 

[feye]

The Taycan has an 800v architecture. One of the benefits of that is the amps required throughout the car are lower than for a similarly powerful 400v system. The Taycan can do 270kw charging at 800v, which is about the same amps as for 150kw at 400v.

the whole cabling in the car would have needed to be thicker and heavier to accommodate for 250kw@400v. That would be nonsensical if the car was designed from the ground up for 800v

That's correct. The battery pack in the Taycan is split in the middle into two packs of cells. That provides the power (800V system) but limits how much electricity you can run through. If you charge with only 400V you cannot just double the current.

 

[kreshi]

I’ve said it before. Yes it’s a plus, but in Europe, especially Switzerland, I’m seeing way more other fast and slow chargers than the Tesla ones. It’s a nice addition to have extra charging options, but the time where Tesla’s network was the pure dominant figure in EV charging is definitely over, at least in central Europe.

Tesla opening up SuC network is mainly a huge benefit for NA customers.

 

[smoothound]

Would be useful in UK too -

I make regular longer trips to visit family and would need a charge mid-journey if I had my Taycan (shame). But the part of the UK motorway system where I would ideally need to charge-up only has a few 50kw public chargers at present. And these have dodgy availability.

There are however 3 massive Tesla SC hubs just where I would need them. So if I had my Taycan now they would be a godsend as soon as they become available.

This will change and Tesla will eventually be just be one more charging option in the UK. But although ultra-rapid charger supply is increasing - so are the number of EVs - at least as fast as power supply.

So I think in the UK at least, it will remain useful to have a Tesla 400V 150kw option open for a few years - even if just to avoid waiting in a queue at non-tesla sites.

cheers

 

[Scandinavian]

If you consider how much faster public charging developed here in China compared to SuC spending money on the wimp of EM, I would give that a no!

not sure it is relevant how China has developed.

I’ve said it before. Yes it’s a plus, but in Europe, especially Switzerland, I’m seeing way more other fast and slow chargers than the Tesla ones. It’s a nice addition to have extra charging options, but the time where Tesla’s network was the pure dominant figure in EV charging is definitely over, at least in central Europe.

Tesla opening up SuC network is mainly a huge benefit for NA customers.

Netherlands, Germany, Norway and Switzerland have a very well developed network with lots of choices. But try U.K.,Sweden, France and Spain or Italy. There is a huge benefit for opening up Tesla network in these countries.

The demand is certainly there but looking at Ionityand their roll out it is below par. I think they stated to have 400 charging locations by end of 2020. They still have not achieved this. And that is with the backing of Mercedes, BMW, VW, Ford and Hyundai. I think that is Pathetic! And I think Diess also thought so.

For the trips I normally do, the opening of the Tesla Super Chargers will be a huge benefit. This stations normally just work with a Tesla. Ionity have been quite good, but not without problems. And then you have the bunch of Also runs, where you will find a pin on a map and it looks great coverage. Look behind the curtain and you will find ONE (1) 150 kW charger and some 43 kW (1).

 

[feye]

not sure it is relevant how China has developed.

Very relevant, considering how massive the public DC charging network is compared to SuC. A few more years, and it will look similar in Europe.

For the trips I normally do, the opening of the Tesla Super Chargers will be a huge benefit. This stations normally just work with a Tesla. Ionity have been quite good, but not without problems.

Love your optimism, but do you think your Taycan will charge with less problems on the SuC?

I once tried to charge my Taycan at an 11kW T wall box from my neighbor - didn't work.

 

[Scandinavian]

Love your optimism, but do you think your Taycan will charge with less problems on the SuC?

Yes I am optimistic at being able to charge at Tesla SUC, if and only if other manufacturers get their SW for charging in order. I guess this is what the pilot in Netherlands is trying to look at. And I have in my own experience not once had any issues plugging in at Tesla. And if you listen to the latest Podcast from Inside EVs, they all have the same experience.

The Interoperability tests Ionity and others like EA have to do with every new car model or brand is quite complex. Temperature, weather, SW interpretations of standards etc etc. Just because a car had a CCS2 connector does not guarantee it will connect and charge. And each manufacturer will have to submit a car for interoperability test a year before launch to make sure the charging works.

Tesla have had a nearly 10 year period to iron out their end to end issues. They are vertically integrated, back office systems for billing, charger HW, charger SW, connectors, communications SW, car SW, car HW. If an issue is discovered or a new feature, they can and do roll out a SW update to tens of thousands of chargers quickly. Plus a major benefit of not having a card reader or display exposed to the elements and sun etc. Less items to fail.

Compare that to Ionity. They have the back office SW. But then charger from Ionity, Tritium, Porsche. Each one with their own HW and internal SW design and their own interpretations of CCS””standards””.

 

[yoursuf]

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