bsclywilly

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I’m curious, the NACS has a 1000V connector standard. Does that mean that existing superchargers may have higher voltage capability and the optional 150kW/400V charging option might not be very useful after all, or only on older superchargers?

 

whitex

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I’m curious, the NACS has a 1000V connector standard. Does that mean that existing superchargers may have higher voltage capability and the optional 150kW/400V charging option might not be very useful after all, or only on older superchargers?
Not at all. Tesla cars cannot charge from 800V, so it would be useless for superchargers to support it. Connector rating doesn't mean much (e.g. most of the AC EVSE cables are rated up to 600V, but never used for more than 240V AC).
 

whitex

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if say "lucid air" added an NCAS physical connection port to their car
and this car pulled up to an EA 350 kW CCS station
Lucid could use the existing adapter to "talk" the EA CCS station using the CCS protocol/standard - because the lucid already "speaks" the CCS protocol.
Unless that connector also enabled Lucid to charge at Tesla Superchargers (provisioned, authorized, and using Tesla signaling/protocol), the aforementioned Lucid would be a horrible idea. Imagine you bought such a car - you cannot charge ANYWHERE without an adapter. Even at home you'd be stuck with maybe one choice of EVSE (assuming Lucid would make one), with all the others you would need an adapter for. *maybe* Lucid could hack it to make it work with Tesla EVSE's by tricking them into thinking Lucid car is a TeslaTap, without having to actually use an adapter, so now you'd have 2 EVSE's to choose from.

You could argue, some day in the future native Tesla connector CCS superchargers show up, but those now have a problem with existing cars needing adapters, so it becomes a chicken-and-the-egg problem. Imagine you take your Taycan on a trip and pull up to a brand new EA DC charger only to find out it requires a different connector for which you don't have an adapter for (it's "coming soon").
 

YLA G

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Well, I love this Europe universal charging cable system. No fuss at all. I can keep my tesla charger at home and can use the superchargers on the road.
 

Scandinavian

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still kill off north america CCS physical connector in favor of the european physical connector - we know that works and Tesla always supports that connector outside the US and can talk to "other" non-superchargers…
I have never been using an EV in the US and do not know the comparable size and weight, but the European CCS connector is not completely without issues either. It is quite bulky and the weight with the cooled cable is heavy and stiff. If you are parked and using some brands chargers it can present some challenges to plug the car in. Shorter cable etc.

And the communications connections do not always get a good contact either. Here is a link to Ionity instructions how to hold the cable firmly pushed in or even lifted a bit so a good contact is ensured. Not easy to do when you need to tap your charging card on the reader at the same time.
You can also see the physical size in the picture.

https://ionity.eu/en/stories/make-charging-a-success
 


whitex

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ROFL - my PMCC power supply cable exceeded 75C in 65F ambient conditions 2 years ago - ROFL - if Porsche had the temperature sensor they would've shut down the charging session - viva PMCC w/10 gauge wire in a 40 amp supply cable.

but I digress…

@whitex has an excellent question.
I found a datasheet for the Murata part listed for the AC connector. Cannot find a datasheet on the Vishay part listed for DC handle.

1668329189409.png


That said, that is not the same sensor (not even same form factor) that I found in a teardown from someone on the internet:
1668329362826.png


I'm going to guess that new handles Tesla uses just use the surface mount Murata part on some PCB (probably the open port transmitter)

For some background, why I am looking for this information: I will be converting one of my 80A HPWC Gen2 for my incoming Taycan (equipped with 19.2KW charger) and wanted to include a temperature sensor, it drawing 80A and all, hence wanting to pick a thermistor which will give the HPWC a correct temperature of the handle. The thermistor in the picture above by the way doesn't look to be either of the two listed in Tesla datasheets. Technically HPWC handle is 80A AC capable, and Tesla did not publish a datasheet for that handle. I will have to do it the long way, stick the cable in a fridge, wait for temp to stabilize, then take the temperature and resistance measurements to calculate the B parameter manually.
 
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Scandinavian

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Yes, this was one of the unanticipated improvements that Plug & Charge brought to me with the latest software update.
But you have the 22 kW option in your car, right? I think that is a must for P&C for MY 20. I can tick the box in the PCM, but it will not work with the 11 kW standard option.
 


Dee

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I can't believe people are fighting this - CCS is terrible to use - why resist something better that doesn't lock anyone into anything other than a better shapped connector.
CCS works just fine.
There hasn't been a day that I thought: this doesn't work that well.
Does the Tesla plug look better?
Yes but I really don't care for that few seconds I put it in and out.
Click, done.
I really don't understand why this was/is/becomes an issue.
 

tigerbalm

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Almost every female hates using CCS connectors – especially compared to AC charging plugs – and presumably the similarly sized Tesla connectors being discussed here.

In fact there is a lot about the EV industry that isn't particularly female friendly – at least here in Europe: top of the list is the remote and often unlit locations of public fast chargers.
 

daveo4EV

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CCS works just fine.
There hasn't been a day that I thought: this doesn't work that well.
Does the Tesla plug look better?
Yes but I really don't care for that few seconds I put it in and out.
Click, done.
I really don't understand why this was/is/becomes an issue.
you've not used the physical north american connector - it's horrible.
 
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RAHRCR

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I suspect that the contractual “fine print” that Tesla will impose on the companies considering this will make it a non-starter. They will want endless royalties, unilateral design control (with indemnification) and other legalese that will keep us using our existing solutions for foreseeable future.
 
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satchurator

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I think we can only benefit from this. Tesla did not do this for altruistic reasons, it was an economic motive. All they need is a single auto maker other than Tesla to adopt the standard (or add it as a secondary port) and Tesla would then qualify for US infrastructure incentives. Even if it is a niche player who adopts (e.g. Aptera, who have talked about doing so) Tesla would still qualify.

I haven't read it yet but apparently the spec indicates that future revisions will support 1000V charging and vehicle to X (X = home, 2nd vehicle?) so that's an indication of future plans. Hopefully those aren't of the autonomous driving flavor of future plans!

If an infrastructure player like Electrify America were to adopt a duality of connectors, it wouldn't be that different from how they've offered CHAdeMO.

There are good precedents for competing businesses finding common ground and mutual benefit in moving to a unified standard after pushing proprietary or competing standards in a balkanized- like Google and Apple with Thread and Matter for home automation.

If I were in the shoes of an industry player CEO, my biggest doubt would be having to make a strategic bet on embracing something that requires the very unpredictable Elon Musk to be a good steward of that standard into the future.
 

tutis

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Hasn't Tesla previously offered their patents to anyone who asked for them, for free?

The small print however said that those taking advantage of Tesla's patents would also wave any right to sue Tesla if Tesla used their patents... meaning Tesla had a Troyan horse (some would say a poison pill) in there that effectively gave Tesla immunity from nearly all things.

Needless to say that other manufacturers didn't take the bait and never used Tesla's "free" patents.

Has Tesla changed its woeful tactics?
 

detansinn

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This is Tesla trying to maneuver around the infrastructure and IRA bills by declaring their proprietary connector and charging communications an open standard. That’s all that is happening here. They want federal tax dollars without having to open up their supercharger network.

It’s incredibly shady.

The Tesla connector is in fact, inferior to the CCS standard. The CCS standard supports V2G and scenarios like the Ford Lightning smart power capability. These are necessary features for EV adoption at scale.

No major manufacturer will fall for this nonsense. Zero motorcycles will likely adopt it and Tesla will declare it a standard.

If Tesla was sincere in their motives, they’d offer a CCS to Tesla supercharger adapter, but they are not doing that and have no intention of doing it.

Further, their own Tesla to CCS adapter works with only a limited number of Tesla models and model years. Tesla is also trying to address customer complaints that they can’t use cheaper and widely available CCS chargers. Tesla has a problem on its hands.

I have done 50k miles across our 3 EVs this year and not once did I ever wish that I had a Tesla. I have witnessed huge lines at super chargers and Tesla owners desperate to charge at CCS locations. I have also encountered Tesla owners with adapters successfully charging at EA chargers happy to escape Tesla’s walled garden.

I will never give Elon and Tesla another dime.
 

 
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