f1eng

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And also, pretty sure 'getting track accurate data' is something you only need on an actual track. Public roads aren't race tracks. I get the odd pull of a line is great fun, and a nice quiet road is just brilliant, but if you really want to free the car and drive it fast, the track is the only place to do it.

Screenshot 2023-01-20 at 09.23.21.png
When I read the marketing I thought the same but it seems to only gives straight line dragster data (hence presumably the name) NOT track data.
So anybody can use it on a quiet straight to get that small sliver of info.

 

kempez

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I guess
When I read the marketing I thought the same but it seems to only gives straight line dragster data (hence presumably the name) NOT track data.
So anybody can use it on a quiet straight to get that small sliver of info.
Sure. I just guess I'm saying if you're tuning your car that much to want to see how the 0-62 time is improving, you should/would be doing it at a track.

Anyway, each to their own I guess, it just marketing like that is in bad taste imo
 

Raphie

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For the track you have the dragy lap app, same receiver, but software for tracks.
more on Dragy
 
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Avantgarde

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Thanks for the terrific question - perhaps it's just a detail, but I drove the Taycan (RWD) not the Taycan 4.

The power delivery was altogether different than the 4S and Turbo that I'd driven previously. In the base Taycan, from a stop or low speed, pinning the accelerator induces only a mild response. The car picks up speed gently at first, but once you hit 30 or so the power starts to ramp up. By 40+, you're flying. The way the power is blended in reminded me of an NA ICE car - e.g., if you pin it at low RPM, you get little torque, but the power starts to ramp up and up as you head up the tach. It's not exactly the same with the Taycan, of course, but it does have a real ramp-up in push as you stay in it. That was the critical difference. Many see that dynamic (delayed shove) as a negative, I'm sure, but not me. It was more interesting - it rewards you for keeping your foot pinned. The more powerful models are fabulous, of course, but they hit you with everything right away. The base doesn't do that. This was the biggest surprise to me, and it's why I enjoyed driving the RWD so much. Rolling out of a corner, I'd put the foot down - you get instant response, but also the sensation of progressive, expanding power. Super fun!
This is a very thoughtful observation and I completely agree with your assessment. I also thought base Taycan's acceleration is oddly similar to an ICE, specifically a non-turbo high revving ICE with long gear ratios. I spent a lot of time reading, testing and thinking about RWD taycan's unique power delivery (and tech specs anomaly vs other variants). After all that I am quite convinced that Porsche applied a a very simple max torque limiter to the rear motor in the case of RWD. The limiter does not impact max horsepower as torque is naturally lower (below their forced ceiling of around 360nm) at higher RPMs. However right from idle, the torque limiter in effect, until the motor hits the RPMs where the torque would naturally fall below 300-350nm. The bottom line effect of this: Base Taycan has a uniquely long and flat torque curve and you don't experience the natural drop in G force you would experience shortly after take off, like in other variants and EVs. It gives you the feeling of a B737 taking off. It does have a very different and unique acceleration curve. I don't have this data, but I am willing to bet that Taycan RWD (especially PB+) has the lowest (50-200kmh in sec) / (0-50kmh in sec) ratio of any car (ICE or EV) out there by a large margin. My guess is the rear unit in the PB+ would deliver a 500-550nm max torque in lower RPMs in absence of the limiter, while producing the similar ~475hp at top end (judging by typical torque curves of modern EV motors and torque curve of other units in Taycan variants), which would help the PB+ deliver ~ 4.5 seconds in 0-100 kmh acceleration, with all that 0.9 seconds of improvement coming in the first half (0-50khm) of the sprint.
 

HerrCooles

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The base would be okay if it hase a AWD. AWD is simply much safer than RWD.
 


Archimedes

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Disagree. I got the rwd because of the fantastic feedback on the steering wheel. Much of that is lost on the 4wD (4s) for some reason. I think the rwd has something the 4s looses.
Maybe it felt that way because you were going so much slower…;)

Just kidding. I’ve driven the RWD and, while I can tell it’s not AWD, it certainly didn’t have any better steering feel or feedback than the 4S or Turbos I’ve driven. But my point wasn’t about steering feel, it was about handling, ie getting in and out of a corner quickest. That equation is just not as simple as RWD>AWD.
 

Avantgarde

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Hi, all - I drove the base Taycan today, and was blown away. I didn’t expect to be. If anyone worries whether it’s enough car, fear not: It’s exceptional.

The Taycan impressed me in ways that I didn’t expect, despite having read (and watched) a host of reviews. I suspect that the base is the one to have. And I say that having driven both the Taycan Turbo and 4S in years past.

Some relevant background: I’ve been into Porsche since I was a kid. I’m lucky to have a 992 GT3 manual, as well as a 2022 Panamera GTS. I love cars, but have had mixed reactions to EVs thus far. They offer attributes with which everyone on this forum is familiar: immediate punch, unparalleled silence, and no emissions. Fabulous stuff. But for those who love driving, the EV revolution is not all upside. It comes with real drawbacks.

Sure, the sound - everyone brings that up. Nothing in EV land will ever touch a naturally aspirated engine shrieking to redline. But that’s not what’s bothered me. The source of EV fun is also its limitation - it’s the binary nature of power delivery. Immediate, full torque from zero RPM is brilliant fun, but it’s a limited experience. Stay in it - with the throttle pinned - and there’s nothing more to be found. The sensation is of constant torque. There isn’t anything to chase. The power, sound, and feel of the car don’t change as it does with a good ICE engine. (True, the ubiquity of turbocharging has robbed most ICE cars of character in much the same way - one ends up riding a wave of constant torque.) But, on the the long trip to redline with an excellent ICE engine, you encounter a broad spectrum of unique experiences - different pickup, response, power, torque, sound, and vibration at each part of the tach. It’s organic, and it makes you want to chase the top end. Speeding tickets ensue.

By contrast, many EVs are on/off. Perhaps like a powerboat vs sailing, the speed is fun and immediate, but it comes up short in larger experience. There’s not much left to explore and learn after a fun-filled initiation. And, to that, I’d add weight. Down low as it may be in an EV, it’s a real problem. I drove a Taycan Turbo two years ago, after jumping right out of my 2018 Carrera T (a car that I planned to keep forever until a GT3 suddenly materialized after a long wait on a list). Although having literally twice the power of the Carrera - and despite reacting to full throttle on corner exit in a way that can only be compared to a detonation - it was nowhere near as much fun. It was heavy and felt it every time you turned the wheel. To be clear, I loved the TT. It was a technological marvel, handled magnificently for a car weighing over 5,000 pounds, and was explosively fast in a way that I’d never experienced before. But it was crazy expensive and - marketing claims aside - no sports car. I previously drove the 4S, too. It was fast and fun, but again uninteresting relative to an excellent ICE car.

Enter the base Taycan. Despite my reservations, I’ve found it hard to stop thinking about Porsche’s first EV. The car is simply gorgeous. And if you enjoy the arc of a good back road, no other EV brand offers an experience like the Taycan. The handling is a world beyond that of any other EV, and the speed of a Plaid and the like offers little in compensation (for me). And despite the drawbacks of an EV as a unitary solution, there’s no denying that it provides the perfect commuter car.

Being in DC, with gridlock on the daily commute, a 4-liter engine is far from the ideal solution. I average 11 mpg on a good day in either the GT3 or GTS to and from work. They’re not the right tool for the job. I want to keep both, the former for obvious reasons and the latter for the many long-distance drives with kids and for the love of a charismatic V8. The more I’ve thought about it, though, the more sense an EV makes for daily use.

Taycans cost a pretty penny, though, and I’ve struggled to justify putting down serious coin on one of the fancier models given my recent car purchases. But maybe a lightly optioned base?

I didn’t have high hopes. 263 ft-lbs of torque in a car heavier than my Panamera GTS? 5.1 seconds to 60 compared to 3.2? There’s more to fun than speed, but I set my expectations accordingly.

But then I drove the Taycan. Wow! It’s swift and effortless off the line, though far from explosive. But stay in it, and around 30 mph the power grows and then surges. It hauls ass from 40 to highway speeds - properly fast. The ramp up in power isn’t sudden - it blends in. I can’t believe I’m writing this, but the power delivery reminded me of a naturally aspirated engine. In this car, the base, you don’t hit the accelerator and get pinned to the seat. Rather, there’s an experience to be found - the power starts low and then builds, builds, builds. Suddenly you’re flying. And when you want “right now” passing power, you absolutely get it at the real-life cruising speeds of 30-70. This car is so much more interesting than other EVs I’ve driven!

Porsche clearly software-limited the power on the base Taycan to protect the 4S and above. But in doing so they’ve actually made this a better car (IMO). It’s way faster than the 5.1 spec would suggest. It makes that leisurely time only because it’s held back through 30. Once unleashed, it’s seriously quick. No doubt the 4S is faster 30-50 (it’s a lot faster 0-30), but from memory the base felt similar once it was unbridled.

Then there’s the rest of the car, which is just spectacular. The brakes were much better than the 2020 4S I’d previously driven. Maybe they’ve improved them? On the older models, the brakes felt flimsy. On this one, they bit hard and felt natural (no, this didn’t have PCCBs or ceramic-coated option).

So the brakes are fabulous and the power ample once in the zone. Couple that with a turn, and the Taycan comes into its own. You can put full power down - deep into a curve - and the car dances. This is pure Porsche. There’s delicacy here. The Taycan is a joy to build a rhythm with as you fly down the road.

Porsche had done a magnificent job here. Perhaps too good. It isn’t just a good Taycan - for some people, it may be the best. Lightly optioned, it’s a steal.

I’m going to buy one. The only lingering question is whether the GTS - which I have not driven - has some magic that’s worth the significant jump in cost. But picking up a lightly optioned base for ~ 105 feels like one hell of a deal. The only thing that bothers me is the base stereo. You can’t option Bose right now, and spending 7 grand on Burmester seems inconsistent with the base ethos. But we shall see. I may ask this forum for input on specific options in the near future.

Notably, the base I drove today lacked PASM, PTV, sports chrono, and RWS. I’d surely tick the boxes for those options. The fact that the car drove as well as it did without those attributes speaks to its innate quality. It did have 21s, though, which likely helped with grip (the car was still, extremely comfortable, even on steel suspension).

I hope this is obvious, but I don’t mean to impugn anyone lucky enough to own other models in the range. The 4S and Turbo models are spectacular, and I can see why one couldn’t look past the lack of immediate punch at low speeds in the base. But I’m incredulous at how good the regular Taycan is.

Final thought: I’m at a loss to understand how people compare Taycans to Panameras. They’re different cars, with distinct use cases. Dimensions notwithstanding, the Taycan is significantly more restrictive inside, particularly in the back, and has less trunk space. I’m 6’1, and could barely squeeze in behind the driver’s seat with it set for me. To be sure, the Taycan brings a hefty dose of practicality, but the Panamera feels more spacious and luxurious. And it’s definitely the better long-distance cruiser. I’m going to keep my GTS. But the Taycan brings its own exceptional benefits, and I think it’ll be a brilliant stablemate to the old-fashioned V8 model. :)

Thank you, all, for the tremendous knowledge and entertainment in this forum. And specially warm congratulations to those of you with a Taycan in the garage. I hope to join that fortunate group soon!
I am wondering if steel suspension is contributing to your positive experience with the RWD vs 4S and TT you drove previously. I also heard previously from some people that steel suspension makes the brake feel better (not sure how but heard about this).
 


Raphie

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Air works better than springs. Way less rebound.
 

irrelevant

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I guess it depends on what you are looking for as a buyer. I ordered a Taycan 4 Cross Turismo. It will be the fastest car I've owned so far. So I suppose it already starts there, what are you used to. Then I had a list of options that I considered must have. Then I want the car to look superb - the way I want it to look and at that stage I've surpassed the price of a higher model (4S) already. For my taste, it will already be fast enough. I'll be driving an expensive Taycan 4 Cross Turismo in the end but when I'll look at it, it will look like a piece of art and it will be well equipped on the inside and outside which is what I prefer over a higher model with less options / less appeal at the cost of performance. In my surroundings everything is filled with camera's, speed traps and trajectory camera's so what is the point of having a lot more performance then?
I never believed there was a hell, until I read your last sentence.
 

tomtom901

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Folks, it is decison time, my lock in date looms and I cannot decide which of RAS or PASM(With Air) should take precedence in my list of options for my base Taycan in the UK. Ideally, I dont want to include both options.

I have also specced the bigger battery but think that is non negotiable ?. Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated
Well, each Taycan has PASM. Air suspension is optional, but for RAS you need the air suspension as well. So in that case, you still end up with both.
 
OP
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The base would be okay if it hase a AWD. AWD is simply much safer than RWD.
Respectfully, the safety of AWD vs RWD is more nuanced than that.

If you’re talking about an oversteer-prone, high-torque, RWD car with limited electronic stability systems, then sure - jumping on the power mid-corner or other displays lacking in finesse may not end well. But that’s a world apart from the Taycan RWD, which has world-class traction control and stability systems, low torque, and a chassis as sophisticated as they come. There’s nothing dangerous or otherwise lacking in safety about it.

If you have winter-driving in mind, then I simply must disagree. AWD offers no advantage in what matters to safety - that is, braking and turning. It does help with traction off the line, but that can give a sense of confidence revealed to be utterly misplaced when one goes hard for the brakes. In those conditions, only one thing really matters - and that’s a good set of winter tires. In any car, you’re far better off with RWD and good winters than you are with AWD and all-seasons. This isn’t to suggest that AWD has no value in snowy conditions, but that value doesn’t lie in safety.

More generally, and without regard to the Taycan specifically, there’s good reason to prefer RWD. AWD systems add weight to the front axle, and produce understeer under power in corner exit as the front tires try to pull the car straight. There’s a reason Porsche makes their GT4, GT4RS, GT3, GT3RS, and GT2RS in RWD-only.

Finally, to the extent that RWD produces predictable and controllable oversteer in a car, I’d suggest that that can be among the most fun one can have behind the wheel. :)
 

HerrCooles

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That is exactly the point. Unpredictable and uncontrolled oversteer happens more easily with RWD than with AWD and that's the reason why AWD is safer than RWD. ;)
 
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That is exactly the point. Unpredictable and uncontrolled oversteer happens more easily with RWD than with AWD and that's the reason why AWD is safer than RWD. ;)
Hopefully not in a Taycan RWD, lol :)
 

 
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