tchavei

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Must have been an interesting meeting between marketing and engineering in 2019 at the Porsche office in Stuttgart:
-Engineer: "Marketing guy, we have problem: The RWD with the small battery is faster than the RWD with the big battery"
-Marketing: "How is that possible ? We cannot sell a slower, more expensive car. Porsche buyers will not accept to pay more for a slower car"
-Engineer: "It is just physics. It is lighter. It has the same motor. So it is faster. Can't change it."
-Marketing: "Please find a hack"
-Engineer reluctantly adding a software hack.....

One week later:
-Engineer: "The AWD with the big battery is slower than the RWD with the small battery. The extra motor and the battery add extra weight and make it slower. We cannot compensate that with the extra power of the extra motor."
-Marketing: "grrrr, you again. I told you already: We can not sell a car that has the cost of the extra motor and the extra battery for more money, if it is slower. Add more software hacks."

:)
we're joking but I suspect that's exactly what happened...
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HerrCooles

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It is only unpredictable or uncontrolled if you are an incompetent driver AND have turned the vehicle stability control off.
Then you are an unsafe driver.
Typical case of overconfidence. ;)

Other example:
What does it look like in winter when the roadway is full of snow? The road is sloping and it goes uphill. A RWD is certainly an advantage there! Of course - quite certainly even.
 

Archimedes

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Must have been an interesting meeting between marketing and engineering in 2019 at the Porsche office in Stuttgart:
-Engineer: "Marketing guy, we have problem: The RWD with the small battery is faster than the RWD with the big battery"
-Marketing: "How is that possible ? We cannot sell a slower, more expensive car. Porsche buyers will not accept to pay more for a slower car"
-Engineer: "It is just physics. It is lighter. It has the same motor. So it is faster. Can't change it."
-Marketing: "Please find a hack"
-Engineer reluctantly adding a software hack.....

One week later:
-Engineer: "The AWD with the big battery is slower than the RWD with the small battery. The extra motor and the battery add extra weight and make it slower. We cannot compensate that with the extra power of the extra motor."
Except it’s not true, because the power added by the front motor more than offsets the additional weight, as the incremental power to weight ratio is higher than the base car. Additionally the AWD system puts the power down better than the RWD car, and the AWD torque vectoring capabilities offset any negligible handling benefit of a slightly lighter front end. So no need to do anything other than slap a base badge on it and price it as low as possible. Kinda like the 4cylinder Macan.
 

Avantgarde

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Nobody is saying the RWD isn’t a great car. It’s just not a fast car. It’s at best quick by any metric other than top end. There are a lot of folks in this thread that have ‘don’t confuse me with the facts while I’m making subjective comments’ attitude. But the facts are black and white. It’s got all the quickness of a Volvo XC 90 Recharge. Which is a hybrid SUV. Is that a fast car?

And while your butt dyno might make you think it’s wicked fast 30-70, the truth is that it is still 27.5% slower 30-70 than the 4S, and only 2/10ths faster than, you guessed it, a 2020 Golf R.
"It is not a fast car". Can't really stress enough how ridiculous this statement is. This is like "range rover is not a big SUV because a Suburban is 1/3 the price and it is bigger". There are many faster cars than your 4S. So where are we gonna draw the line per your "objective" fast car metric? There are 275 million vehicles on the road in the US. If base taycan is faster than 99% of them (real percentile is likely higher but lets play safe), would you call it a "fast car"? Or "fast car" classification only starts after 99.50% or 99.99% percentile?

Or forget about stats. Let me give you another interesting fact: E39 M5 was THE FASTEST PRODUCTION SEDAN in the world when it debuted in year 2000 (the year I graduated from college not a century ago!). It did 0-200 km/h in 16.9 seconds. Taycan RWD does 0-200 km/h in 16.5 per factory claim. So per your claim we did not need the word "fast" in our automotive vocabulary up until 15-20 years ago because nothing really deserved the adjective :D.

As ridiculous these statements are, I would not care only if they were not misleading. When I bought my RWD wait time for a brand new 4S was 12 months plus and I almost passed on locking in a RWD reading these type of comments, because "who wants a slow porsche?", thank god one of my friends convinced me to test driving one (which was not easy to arrange because of empty lots). Thank god I did and got mine before the price increase and tax incentive went away.

Everybody buys these vehicles for different purposes. If you are dropping 100K+ in a car because of bragging rights or shocking your friends by pinning them to their seats at a red light, yes a 4S represents a better value proposition and anything less may not make sense. If you care about driving dynamics, finesse and enjoy a great handling vehicle along with a strong healthy acceleration i find it difficult you longing for "more power" in a RWD in most of real-world spirited driving scenarios.

Reality is this is an EGO driven statement for some. The mere fact that a much cheaper car can be faster off the line than your six figure porsche is a matter of shame for some. But I have bad news for those: With the new price reductions a tesla Model 3P which can do 0-60 in 3.1 sec can be had for 47 grand after tax incentives. My suggestion, if you can't afford the Turbo S, just shift your focus and enjoy the drive (and still a pretty amazing acceleration too!)
 
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f1eng

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Typical case of overconfidence. ;)

Other example:
What does it look like in winter when the roadway is full of snow? The road is sloping and it goes uphill. A RWD is certainly an advantage there! Of course - quite certainly even.
AWD is definitely an advantage in low grip conditions, obviously, but only to get moving. After that the brakes and steeriing are no better than RWD and anyway, tyres make the most difference off road or on snow.

It almost never snows here, hence my never having needed an AWD car for the last 50+ years, but a RWD car on winter tyres has better traction than AWD on summer tyres and is capable of steering and stopping too. So I use winter tyres.

You said RWD is dangerous, it is not. Yes, it will have less traction on snow, no surprise there.
 


ben1

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Except it’s not true, because the power added by the front motor more than offsets the additional weight, as the incremental power to weight ratio is higher than the base car. Additionally the AWD system puts the power down better than the RWD car, and the AWD torque vectoring capabilities offset any negligible handling benefit of a slightly lighter front end. So no need to do anything other than slap a base badge on it and price it as low as possible. Kinda like the 4cylinder Macan.
The version with the smaller battery is definitely faster than the version with the big battery. That is just plain physics. There is definitely a software hack to reduce the power on the versions with the small battery. That is clearly marketing driven. Not engineering.

You are right that the front motor will likely offset the extra weight. But the difference will be minimal.
If you compare the different versions you get that the front motor adds about 15-20% extra power. (The front motor is optimized for higher speeds. And the front wheels cannot put much power on the road)
The extra motor+bigger battery add about 10% extra weight.
So the real difference, without software hacks, between the RWD+small battery and the AWD+big battery was likely too small for Porsche marketing. Probably something like 4 (for the 4s+PB+) vs 4,5 seconds (for the RWD+PB). A too small difference to justify +30000 euro or dollar extra.

I suspect they added ±1 sec to the RWD to go from ±4,5 to 5,4sec. And ±0,5 sec to the RWD+big battery to go from ±5 to 5,4 sec.
 
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Irish Guy

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Except it’s not true, because the power added by the front motor more than offsets the additional weight, as the incremental power to weight ratio is higher than the base car. Additionally the AWD system puts the power down better than the RWD car, and the AWD torque vectoring capabilities offset any negligible handling benefit of a slightly lighter front end. So no need to do anything other than slap a base badge on it and price it as low as possible. Kinda like the 4cylinder Macan.
This is wrong: “the AWD torque vectoring capabilities offset any negligible handling benefit of a slightly lighter front end.” By handling, we’re talking about cornering - not straight line acceleration. The only torque-vectoring that enhances rotation happens at the rear axle. Add power during a turn, and a RWD car (with a limited slip diff) will turn in, while an AWD system will try to pull the front wheels straight, causing understeer. Porsche’s AWD system is brilliant, of course, and tries to mimic RWD characteristics by putting power to the back until traction limited. As more torque goes to the front under more power, though, you get understeer - and that’s a fact. If you doubt this, please explain to us why Porsche adds AWD to none of its track-focused cars.

Add ~200 pounds to the nose on the 4S, and I hate to break it to you: a RWS with equivalent performance options to a 4S (RWS, PTV, air suspension, sports+ with chrono option, and same tires) will turn in marginally better/plow less due to the lighter nose and will rotate slightly better under power. I don’t want to overstate it - no Taycan is a sports car. But, be that as it may, a performance-optioned RWD will be just that little bit sweeter in twisties than a 4S. Obviously a 4S will drop the RWD on the straights.

I have a serious question for you: What is your story? I don’t see you as a troll, but throughout the entire chain any suggestion that the RWD has something distinct and better to offer - no matter how limited - has clearly bothered you. I’m curious why. It’s apparent from what you write and also from what you don’t. You’ve refused to acknowledge what’s obvious to anyone driving the RWD - the power ramps up, and the car pulls hard after 30. This isn’t subjective - to your prior aspersion - but backed up by objective facts in the 30-50, 50-70, and trap speeds. You ignore all of that, fixate on 0-60, and relegate the RWD to the company of a host of “not fast” cars. (Avantgarde pointed this out well just above.) Any lingering doubt about your motivations was dispelled by your invocation of a 4-cylinder Macan.

So, what is it? Do you see people here kidding themselves into believing that a clearly slower car is somehow better? And that annoys you? Or are you irritated that you spent 20 grand more on a faster car that, for all its brilliance and advantages, is not superior in every respect to the entry-level version?

I will share one subjective view - on the subject that should matter to each of us the most - which car is preferable? I’ve driven the RWD, 4S, and Turbo Taycans. I like the RWD the best, and for reasons I laid out in detail in starting this thread. If you prefer the 4S, all the more power to you. It’s a lot faster from a dig, and that’s fun. But it’s not better in every way.
 
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Raphie

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Today some fast driving in the outskirts, pulling the 4s CT through a corner, pedal to the metal, rear right wheel had wheelspin, could feel it bounce and regrip, this was like motorcycle fast, where being pushed to the outside, wondering if you ever make the corner. The 4s was flawless, felt very save. My E would have felt 2x as heavy.
 


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Today some fast driving in the outskirts, pulling the 4s CT through a corner, pedal to the metal, rear right wheel had wheelspin, could feel it bounce and regrip, this was like motorcycle fast, where being pushed to the outside, wondering if you ever make the corner. The 4s was flawless, felt very save. My E would have felt 2x as heavy.
Fab! Porsche makes one hell of a product.
 

FLT6LVR

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Except it’s not true, because the power added by the front motor more than offsets the additional weight, as the incremental power to weight ratio is higher than the base car. Additionally the AWD system puts the power down better than the RWD car, and the AWD torque vectoring capabilities offset any negligible handling benefit of a slightly lighter front end. So no need to do anything other than slap a base badge on it and price it as low as possible. Kinda like the 4cylinder Macan.
You are 100% correct in my opinion but this thread is full of people who want/need to validate purchasing a base model. It's amazing how there's so much conjecture but little fact here. Honestly I think all Taycans are great. The weight of these cars is already so high that a few hundred pounds here or there doesn't make much difference. Waiting for the steel roof guys to wax poetic about how much better the handling is than the glass roof. Next the guys without heating steering wheels will talk about how much better steering feel is without the switch for heating switch and element lol. All this talk about weight and balance in a barge is hilarious.

F6L
 
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You are 100% correct in my opinion but this thread is full of people who want/need to validate purchasing a base model. It's amazing how there's so much conjecture but little fact here. Honestly I think all Taycans are great. The weight of these cars is already so high that a few hundred pounds here or there doesn't make much difference. Waiting for the steel roof guys to wax poetic about how much better the handling is than the glass roof. Next the guys without heating steering wheels will talk about how much better steering feel is without the switch for heating switch and element lol. All this talk about weight and balance in a barge is hilarious.

F6L
I don’t know whether your comment was directed at me, among others, but I have nothing to validate. I already have a far better handling car than any Taycan. And my build hasn’t locked yet - I have a slot for RWD if I want it. I’m planning to go for it because I test drove the RWD twice, and loved it. But I still want to check out the GTS, which I haven’t had a chance to do.

I also don’t know if the conjecture part has to do with me, but I’ve tried to link to instrument test results that seem to capture what I felt during my test drives of the RWD. (Maybe you were referring to the power of the front motor offsetting the added weight, which no doubt it does, but I never commented on that before.)

I agree that Taycans are so heavy that handling differences will be limited. That’s why I suggested any handling benefit of the RWD would be marginal and I expressly said I didn’t want to overstate it. But I did want to correct a misstatement about the effects of AWD on handling.

The point of this thread was never to argue that the RWD is better than the other Taycan variants. It was to say that the base is a revelation (see first post), interesting (the power comes in gradually from a dig), and good value. And its performance is much stronger than its 0-60 might suggest. I was ready to write off the base because I presumed it was sluggish. I’d hate for any prospective purchaser not to give the RWD a test drive before moving up the chain - hence this thread.

Do you have a 4S? Other version? Would you recommend it over the RWD? I’d love to hear why (genuinely - that’s the real value of these forums).
 

RAHRCR

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You are 100% correct in my opinion but this thread is full of people who want/need to validate purchasing a base model. It's amazing how there's so much conjecture but little fact here. Honestly I think all Taycans are great. The weight of these cars is already so high that a few hundred pounds here or there doesn't make much difference. Waiting for the steel roof guys to wax poetic about how much better the handling is than the glass roof. Next the guys without heating steering wheels will talk about how much better steering feel is without the switch for heating switch and element lol. All this talk about weight and balance in a barge is hilarious.

F6L
Agreed. This is really a “choose your adventure” type of deal. For those willing to sacrifice some off the line performance to save some cash, I think they will have a nice car on their hands. You will get everything Porsche prints on the tin…perhaps a bit more. Those choosing RWD with aspirations of more performance than the higher models could find themselves a bit disappointed. The RWD/GT3 compares in this thread really gave me a chuckle. 🙂
 
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Agreed. This is really a “choose your adventure” type of deal. For those willing to sacrifice some off the line performance to save some cash, I think they will have a nice car on their hands. You will get everything Porsche prints on the tin…perhaps a bit more. Those choosing RWD with aspirations of more performance than the higher models could find themselves a bit disappointed. The RWD/GT3 compares in this thread really gave me a chuckle. 🙂
Did anyone compare a RWD to a GT3? I mentioned both because I have the latter and like the former, but they’re completely different animals! But I’m happy if I inadvertently gave someone a chuckle. :)
 

Raphie

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4s here, if everyone is really honest, including myself, we all want a Turbo S performance+
however, not everyone has 250k€ to burn.

the game is simple:
- chose the most expensive one you can afford
- allocate an additional 20-30k on options (the option list gets shorter once the models go up, as more things come standard)
- budget for ppf (factory or xpel) + ceramic coating (5-6k)

there is no shame in bridging from a BMW5, Audi A6, or Merc E 2.0 to a 90k RWD basic no option Taycan, but it’s the baseline, it makes no sense to justify it as a deliberate choice
for example what defines Taycan for me: Full leather, AWD, AIR suspension, performance battery+, Sport Chrono, those are essential for the fun factor IMHO
then if you like racetex, you can debate, budget being equal, whether you want a full 4s, or a stock
GTS.
you don’t want a Taycan with springs.
 
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"As ridiculous these statements are, I would not care only if they were not misleading. When I bought my RWD wait time for a brand new 4S was 12 months plus and I almost passed on locking in a RWD reading these type of comments, because "who wants a slow porsche?", thank god one of my friends convinced me to test driving one (which was not easy to arrange because of empty lots). Thank god I did and got mine before the price increase and tax incentive went away.

Everybody buys these vehicles for different purposes. If you are dropping 100K+ in a car because of bragging rights or shocking your friends by pinning them to their seats at a red light, yes a 4S represents a better value proposition and anything less may not make sense. If you care about driving dynamics, finesse and enjoy a great handling vehicle along with a strong healthy acceleration i find it difficult you longing for "more power" in a RWD in most of real-world spirited driving scenarios.
This is the most important takeaway from the thread, in my view. No one denies that the RWD is slower than the others. But if you’re a prospective buyer, you’re doing yourself a disservice not to check it out. The power, once on a roll, is ample. And it has some attractive idiosyncrasies.
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