The Tesla Model S Has Lived Long Enough to See Itself Become a Villain

PorscheCH

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it always was.

Unfair comparison. the taycan is a sports car. the other democratised horsepower (you could not buy north of 800 hp without spending a lot more money), but not brakes, suspension and steering (which are crap).

And in fact, barroom gossip aside, nobody makes fast turns with the tesla appliance. all traffic light heroes (in the US).

Even the lap times on the Ring (with a heavily modified Model S, not available to the public while pretending it is) go in the same direction: to be a pub talker and to amaze those who know little about cars
 

stoneunhenged

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it always was.

Unfair comparison. the taycan is a sports car. the other democratised horsepower (you could not buy north of 800 hp without spending a lot more money), but not brakes, suspension and steering (which are crap).

And in fact, barroom gossip aside, nobody makes fast turns with the tesla appliance. all traffic light heroes (in the US).

Even the lap times on the Ring (with a heavily modified Model S, not available to the public while pretending it is) go in the same direction: to be a pub talker and to amaze those who know little about cars
Funny how many people scream "unfair comparison" when comparing a Taycan to a Tesla. My response is: of course it's a fair comparison, and trying to be a gatekeeper on what amounts to legitimate comparison is bullshit. It's one car being compared to another car. That's a fair comparison. Fabricating faux distinctions like "democratized horsepower" vs. (what?) "elitist horsepower" is a laughably meaningless distinction. They're cars, and EVs, and both expensive. That's close enough for a meaningful comparison.
 

PorscheCH

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Fabricating faux distinctions like "democratized horsepower" vs. (what?) "elitist horsepower" is a laughably meaningless distinction. They're cars, and EVs, and both expensive. That's close enough for a meaningful comparison.
Of course you can compare all you want, "they are not comparable" is a figure of speech. They are two very, very different objects. Yet, nobody is stopping you from comparing them even if the only things they have in common is that they are EV with 4 tyres. The Taycan is the closest you can get to a sports car. Steering, suspension, brakes, chassis dynamics, all geared to purpose. Generally well put together. A luxury product with so-so software (though improving). plaid s is a badly assembled, badly painted, clunky thing with lots of horsepower and inadequate brakes, suspension and chassis. Giant iPad (but no CarPlay). And a much lower final price (around here a fully specced 😆 plaid s costs about 50% of your turbo s).

the fact that some are trying to pass off the plaid s as a 'sports' car (e.g. obstinacy to lap the Ring with little or nothing as standard, introducing a non purchasable track pack, ehm) in europe makes one smile...
 
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f1eng

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Funny how many people scream "unfair comparison" when comparing a Taycan to a Tesla. My response is: of course it's a fair comparison, and trying to be a gatekeeper on what amounts to legitimate comparison is bullshit. It's one car being compared to another car. That's a fair comparison. Fabricating faux distinctions like "democratized horsepower" vs. (what?) "elitist horsepower" is a laughably meaningless distinction. They're cars, and EVs, and both expensive. That's close enough for a meaningful comparison.
Quite so.
If comparing cars the parameters which are important and how important will vary strongly between people.

6 years ago I was looking at a PHEV car with tailgate (for my dog) and my shortlist ended up between a Toyota Prius PHEV and Porsche Panamera Sport Turismo plug in, with the Porsche being much better in the obvious ways and the Toyota much better in other ways some less obvious to non engineers.
 


gtm

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I drove the Plaid up the Crest just after having come down in our above-$200,000 winner, the Taycan Turbo S and the contrast couldn't be more sharp...

The Tesla Model S Has Lived Long Enough to See Itself Become a Villain (msn.com)
My first reaction was that this was a dopey comparison. However after looking at the comparison "test" article that gave rise to the one quoted above (https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45614830/2024-performance-electric-car-of-the-year/), it's fair to make the comparison. R&T compared 6 vehicles to get a Performance EV of the Year. They don't really define performance except their road test comments make it pretty plain that how the car behaved while attacking twisty roads was the most important criteria. Based on that it should be no surprise that the Porsche took the top spot (in the over $100K category). Even if they had selected a RWD base model, or 4S Taycan to better equalize the price point the result would have been the same. Had they been trying to find the Road Trip EV of the year, Quarter Mile EV of the year, or Plushest EV of the year the results would have been different, but they weren't and made no secret of what they were looking for in selecting the winners.

The semi-SUV Kia coming out on top of the under $100,000 class was interesting. Makes me think a trip to the Kia dealer might be in order as it's time to replace our CR-V.
 
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Crazymind

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Can’t stop thinking the article is a direct attack to Mask. Nothing about the car. yoke, brakes, steering. Nothing new. Nothing we didn’t know.
Elon makes cars people want. He is not interested in beating porsche at the Ring, enough to win at the pub.
 


RAHRCR

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If the average consumer would cross shop the vehicles, I say the comparison is warranted. Just keep in mind that folks like us that participate in forums like this are generally not the average consumer.
 

Chas1

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My first reaction was that this was a dopey comparison. However after looking at the comparison "test" article that gave rise to the one quoted above (https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45614830/2024-performance-electric-car-of-the-year/), it's fair to make the comparison. R&T compared 6 vehicles to get a Performance EV of the Year. They don't really define performance except their road test comments make it pretty plain that how the car behaved while attacking twisty roads was the most important criteria. Based on that it should be no surprise that the Porsche took the top spot (in the over $100K category). Even if they had selected a RWD base model, or 4S Taycan to better equalize the price point the result would have been the same. Had they been trying to find the Road Trip EV of the year, Quarter Mile EV of the year, or Plushest EV of the year the results would have been different, but they weren't and made no secret of what they were looking for in selecting the winners.

The semi-SUV Kia coming out on top of the under $100,000 class was interesting. Makes me think a trip to the Kia dealer might be in order as it's time to replace our CR-V.
Those of us who like Porsches ultimately should like driving and cars that handle better than most cars on real roads, not the track. (Though Porsche do good tracks cars too.). In nearly every sector where Porsche choose to market vehicles they are the best handling cars and probably the best engineered. Musk says that a Tesla is essentially a robot. Porsche need to be wary not to go down that route until full autonomous driving is the norm. Even then I would still prefer to drive an entirely mechanical Porsche.
 

gtm

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Those of us who like Porsches ultimately should like driving and cars that handle better than most cars on real roads, not the track. (Though Porsche do good tracks cars too.). In nearly every sector where Porsche choose to market vehicles they are the best handling cars and probably the best engineered. Musk says that a Tesla is essentially a robot. Porsche need to be wary not to go down that route until full autonomous driving is the norm. Even then I would still prefer to drive an entirely mechanical Porsche.
Driving is why the Taycan replaced my Model S Performance. I do fairly regular road trips. With the Tesla the basic autopilot was engaged for a good portion of any restricted access highways. With the Porsche I only use Innodrive to play with the infotainment or open a bottle of water. With a Porsche you want to drive the car, not be driven. But for just plain old transportation the Tesla wins. Easy user interface, easy Supercharging, actually pretty decent and comfortable suspension. The Taycan is far from perfect but until I get too old to enjoy actively driving a car there is no going back.
 

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I don't necessarily disagree with the conclusion, although I've never driven a plaid to say anything definitive either way. However, this article just comes across as "I don't like Elon Musk so his product is therefore bad"
 

stoneunhenged

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Of course you can compare all you want, "they are not comparable" is a figure of speech. They are two very, very different objects. Yet, nobody is stopping you from comparing them even if the only things they have in common is that they are EV with 4 tyres. The Taycan is the closest you can get to a sports car. Steering, suspension, brakes, chassis dynamics, all geared to purpose. Generally well put together. A luxury product with so-so software (though improving). plaid s is a badly assembled, badly painted, clunky thing with lots of horsepower and inadequate brakes, suspension and chassis. Giant iPad (but no CarPlay). And a much lower final price (around here a fully specced 😆 plaid s costs about 50% of your turbo s).

the fact that some are trying to pass off the plaid s as a 'sports' car (e.g. obstinacy to lap the Ring with little or nothing as standard, introducing a non purchasable track pack, ehm) in europe makes one smile...
There are very mildly used Turbo S's now on the market for less than $100,000.
 

Caraholic

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There are very mildly used Turbo S's now on the market for less than $100,000.
really last I looked cheapest turbo s was 120’s. Just looked a lot of those are actually turbos that are marketed as turbo S only ones at 100 or below have a branded title. There are a couple in the 110’s though which is a nice buy.
Sponsored

 
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