Tires: All Season/Winter vs. Summer/Winter

Jonathan S.

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What about the option of driving all year with winter tyres ?
Is it a really stupid idea ?
Are they really that bad in summer ?

Winter tyres last a bit less long in summer temperatures and the consumption is a bit higher, but that is probably balanced by having no labor cost for switching tyres 2 times per year.

I did it on my previous car because I was too lazy to switch the tyres 2 times per year. Did not have much problems with it. But I am not an expert at all.
Not dangerous, i.e., as would be running summer tires in cold temps.
But that means putting up with all the disadvantages of winter tires on dry and wet roads, without any of the advantages for snow & ice.
And the more rapid wear from warmer temperatures would probably outweigh the savings from labor for swaps and initial payment for separate wheels.
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WasserGKuehlt

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Making a [...] tire that does well in the wet and well when worn down seems to be black magic.
I see what you did there. 👍

What about the option of driving all year with winter tyres ?
Is it a really stupid idea ?
Are they really that bad in summer ?
Yes. Winters are a low-temp compound, and they turn to mush at summer temps - as in no grip. You may not care about the accelerated wear, but you probably should care about poor braking performance.
 

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I once had winter tires on one of my cars (imported from Germany) and I decided to just run them down and replace them afterwards. In South Portugal, they lasted 3 months during the summer. Don't really recall breaking performance but they basically painted the asphalt with the speed they wore out. Don't think I put over 6k km on them.
 

philbur

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Fair question! I realize I really just made a statement there without any kind of reasoning to why that would be the case. The reason comes down to the tread pattern. The technical term is tire siping, which is really a fancy word for the cuts and patterns in the tire. All other things being equal, (size, materials, etc) a tire with more cuts across the tread design can evacuate more water from underneath itself when it enters a puddle. This is how a tire prevents hydroplaning. Hydroplaning occurs when there is more water under the tire than the tire can handle, causing the tire to float above the water and lose contact with the ground.

Take a look at these sample treads here:
1675622474863.png


A summer tire has very few cuts across the tread design. This is to maximize rubber to road contact in performance scenarios (like doing a vegas to red rocks canyon run) where the all season tire has a more heavily cut pattern. This results in a more 'squishy' feeling tire but is much better at removing water. You can also see that winter tires take this even further. Not pictured, off road/all terrain tires take this to an even further extreme, leaving big fat gaps between the road contact points of the tire.

Specific to the taycan, let's look at the stock tire options. You can see the siping gets more extreme the more 'wintery' the tire gets.

This is the pattern of the continental summer tires (PremiumContact6)
1675622964089.png

and this is the stock all seasons (ProContact RX)
1675623054143.png

And here are the stock winter tires ( WinterContact TS )
1675623126821.png
Block pattern is one area.. the other is the temp range of the rubber.
 

ben1

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I once had winter tires on one of my cars (imported from Germany) and I decided to just run them down and replace them afterwards. In South Portugal, they lasted 3 months during the summer. Don't really recall breaking performance but they basically painted the asphalt with the speed they wore out. Don't think I put over 6k km on them.
Yes, It depends a lot the climate. Portugal is a different story.
Summer in North-Western europe is not like +25 degrees for 6 months.
During spring and Autumn we get about 10 degrees average. And during the summer it is often also just 10 degrees in the morning. Which is still fine for winter tyres.
Where I live, winter tyres are really not good 3 months per year, good 3 months per year, and acceptable the other 6 months.
It certainly better to switch tyres, but to me it makes more sense to drive winter tyres all year than to drive summer tyres all year. And all-season tyres have the limitation that they are not legal in some mountain areas.
 


Andy0565

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Fair question! I realize I really just made a statement there without any kind of reasoning to why that would be the case. The reason comes down to the tread pattern. The technical term is tire siping, which is really a fancy word for the cuts and patterns in the tire. All other things being equal, (size, materials, etc) a tire with more cuts across the tread design can evacuate more water from underneath itself when it enters a puddle. This is how a tire prevents hydroplaning. Hydroplaning occurs when there is more water under the tire than the tire can handle, causing the tire to float above the water and lose contact with the ground.

Take a look at these sample treads here:
1675622474863.png


A summer tire has very few cuts across the tread design. This is to maximize rubber to road contact in performance scenarios (like doing a vegas to red rocks canyon run) where the all season tire has a more heavily cut pattern. This results in a more 'squishy' feeling tire but is much better at removing water. You can also see that winter tires take this even further. Not pictured, off road/all terrain tires take this to an even further extreme, leaving big fat gaps between the road contact points of the tire.

Specific to the taycan, let's look at the stock tire options. You can see the siping gets more extreme the more 'wintery' the tire gets.

This is the pattern of the continental summer tires (PremiumContact6)
1675622964089.png

and this is the stock all seasons (ProContact RX)
1675623054143.png

And here are the stock winter tires ( WinterContact TS )
1675623126821.png
I do agree with you, but it’s important to remember that summer tyres are unsafe in temperatures below 7°c due to the compound, so, it’s not just about tread pattern.

I’m truth, I think running all season tyres is fine for pretty much everyone. You shouldn’t run summer tyres in winter though.

I run summer and winter tyres because I like having two sets of wheels. My winter Aeros extend range a little and are easier to clean and my summer mission e’s change the look.
 

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Also faced with sale "dilemma". I have 20" Porsche wheels with winter tires. Picked up a nice set of 21" Vossen wheels over the winter - had summers on them, but they are toast. So, looking at either dedicated summers (Goodyear F1 Asym 5) or all seasons (Conti Procontact RX) on them. All previous cars I had dedicated high performance summers, but for range and longevity, likely going with all seasons. But mainly, allows me to switch over to the Vossens a few weeks earlier and remove them a few weeks later.
 

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I am wondering if the picking summer over all season is the wise choice.
Boston area CT4 owner here. I specced summer tires and purchased an additional wheel set with winters.
One odd little thing about getting all seasons on a new build - that punishes you with the little red Mud and Snow sticker / speed limit warning on the dash. Probably thanks to some lawyer somewhere.
I've been happy with the summer / winter combo. Something else to consider, is the stopping power of all seasons compared to summers on a dry road. It's a 2 ton vehicle so the traction for me is more about braking safety than anything else.
Bat signal to @f1eng who can school us all on tire tradeoffs.
 


f1eng

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Boston area CT4 owner here. I specced summer tires and purchased an additional wheel set with winters.
One odd little thing about getting all seasons on a new build - that punishes you with the little red Mud and Snow sticker / speed limit warning on the dash. Probably thanks to some lawyer somewhere.
I've been happy with the summer / winter combo. Something else to consider, is the stopping power of all seasons compared to summers on a dry road. It's a 2 ton vehicle so the traction for me is more about braking safety than anything else.
Bat signal to @f1eng who can school us all on tire tradeoffs.
It very much depends on the climate where you live and the tyre choice itself.
Summer tyre compounds tend to be a bit hard for wet braking at low temperatures but are usually good for dry braking above freezing.
Winter tyres are very much better in snow but all seasons are pretty good in cold and wet.
I use winters in winter but am sympathetic to the conclusion that European all seasons may be a better overall bet for a southern UK winter, I may try them next.
I find the tyre review web site interesting but I suspect most won’t!
 

Ross

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It very much depends on the climate where you live and the tyre choice itself.
Summer tyre compounds tend to be a bit hard for wet braking at low temperatures but are usually good for dry braking above freezing.
Winter tyres are very much better in snow but all seasons are pretty good in cold and wet.
I use winters in winter but am sympathetic to the conclusion that European all seasons may be a better overall bet for a southern UK winter, I may try them next.
I find the tyre review web site interesting but I suspect most won’t!
I am all over Tyre review website and You Tube
Interesting personable guy
I am researching winter/all season for winter 23/24
Interesting to hear you are considering all seasons for winter in Scotland
I am definitely thinking this for Lancashire
I am thinking 20' aeros with all seasons for 9 months of the year for grip and efficiency
then put the 21' party dancin boots on for 3 months of summer fun.
That way the ££££ 21' Pirellis might last a few summers - instead of one!
 

f1eng

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I am all over Tyre review website and You Tube
Interesting personable guy
I am researching winter/all season for winter 23/24
Interesting to hear you are considering all seasons for winter in Scotland
I am definitely thinking this for Lancashire
I am thinking 20' aeros with all seasons for 9 months of the year for grip and efficiency
then put the 21' party dancin boots on for 3 months of summer fun.
That way the ££££ 21' Pirellis might last a few summers - instead of one!
I am in Oxfordshire, much of my family are in Scotland.
I was brought up in the Fylde where it almost never snowed and all seasons would probably be ideal for the cold.
I did my apprenticeship in the Pennines, where it snowed quite a bit - I’d definitely go for winters there.

I have never tried all seasons, just assumed they were mediocre at everything, but the tyre review guy found them to be good for cold and wet, not bad for snow and dry, so I will probably give them a try when my winters need replacing!
 

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Waiting on my Taycan CT4 to arrive in February. I am mulling tires. Right now it is spec'd with 21" all-season. I live in Boston and drive to Maine/Acadia area, where I have a summer place, often ... in both the summer and winter. The odds are I will not be heading up to Maine the remainder of this winter. So far, winter has been very uneventful in Boston. The car will be kept year round in a large heated public parking garage.

Here are my options, as I see it:

1. use all season 21" for 7-8 months and get a second set of winter tires for the remaining months (November 15-March 30)

or

2. switch out the all season for summer and get a second set of winter tires - thus a set of summer and winter tires. No all season tires.

I am wondering if the picking summer over all season is the wise choice.
I have 3 sets.
1. Summer Michelin Pilot Sport 4S
2. Pirelli Sottozero series 2
3. Winter Nokian Hakkapeliitta R5
If you have the room and a floor jack you'll be set for yesrs
 
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WasserGKuehlt

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I have never tried all seasons, just assumed they were mediocre at everything, but the tyre review guy found them to be good for cold and wet, not bad for snow and dry, so I will probably give them a try when my winters need replacing!
I'm very impressed with the combination of the heavy 4CT and the Conti all-seasons. Over the past couple of months, I drove on every form of 'winter' surface: slush, fresh, packed, cold bare asphalt (well below freezing), black or blue/clear ice (in resort parking lots), both up and down steep inclines. It's put a foot wrongly on maybe one or two occasions, and that's because I was pushing/probing. When it breaks traction, it's a slow/gentle event, with control easily regained by dialing the pedal back a bit.

I may still get a dedicated set of winters for complete confidence in any weather, and to comply with Canadian (or maybe just British Columbia's?) road rules..
 

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I have 3 sets.
1. Summer Michelin Pilot Sport 4S
2 Michelin Pilot Sport AS
3. Winter Nokian Hakkapeliitta R5
If you have the room and a floor jack you'll be set for yesrs
Peter,
How do you like the hakkas, and in particular how do they do in the dry? I have a difficult driveway and worry that a v-rated winter tire like the Porsche approved ones will not cut it. I'm in Spokane Valley, hilly and sometimes icy but a studded Hakka10 EVmay be too much. Thanks.
Jerry (GTS ST coming but I don't know when)
 

Pedroski66

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Peter,
How do you like the hakkas, and in particular how do they do in the dry? I have a difficult driveway and worry that a v-rated winter tire like the Porsche approved ones will not cut it. I'm in Spokane Valley, hilly and sometimes icy but a studded Hakka10 EVmay be too much. Thanks.
Jerry (GTS ST coming but I don't know when)
Hey Jerry, pretty much satisfied with them. I made the switch to non-studded Nokian Hakkapeliittas with my old A6 wagon and an i3s, and they are great!
Ran studs for years and the slight drop in hard ice performance is more than made up for with noise reduction and the 98% of my winter driving on surfaces that don't benefit from studs.
They aren't the pack leader with pure rain/wet roads however. I'd rate them almost perfect.
https://linksharing.samsungcloud.com/aQGbfE6XR3bN

 
 




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