[US] - Over the Top - the well equipped EV home garage…for those that wish to "over do it"…

Jhenson29

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Excellent post and one that will help a lot of users. Thanks @Dave EV.

One question: are you saying your level 5 (50 am circuit) will allow the included-with -the-care mobile charger to be plugged in and run at 50 amps?

I am using that charger at home (on a standard 115VAC 15 amp circuit) and it will only allow 8 amps without a special "charging manager."
No. Dave is saying the circuit is a 50 amp circuit but the load is 40 amps.

Both the PMC+ and PMCC go up to a maximum of 40 amps if they are put on a 240VAC 50 amp circuit.

You do not get to use 50 amps. The circuit it’s on has to be a 50 amp circuit though. Circuits for continuous loads have to rated at 125% of the continuous load.
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daveo4EV

daveo4EV

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Excellent post and one that will help a lot of users. Thanks @Dave EV.

One question: are you saying your level 5 (50 am circuit) will allow the included-with -the-care mobile charger to be plugged in and run at 50 amps?

I am using that charger at home (on a standard 115VAC 15 amp circuit) and it will only allow 8 amps without a special "charging manager."
not quite - any North American “50 amp” plug - (NEMA 14-50, 6-50, 10-50) will charge an EV at 40 amps

the next size up for most breakers is 60 amps - but that charger would be hardwired - an EV charger (EVSE) with a 60 amp breaker/wire can charge at EV at a maximum rate of 48 amps (12,000 watts) - ClipperCreek is one such charger with their HCS-60 J-1772 EVSE’s
 
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daveo4EV

daveo4EV

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North American building codes require you to “derate” the breaker/wire for “continous loads” - continous loads are any appliance or device that will run at “max load” for more than 2 hours…

so for a breaker/wire-gauge size of:

30 amps = 24 amp EVSE load - 5.76 kW
40 amps = 32 amp EVSE load - 7.68 kW
50 amps = 40 amp EVSE load - 9.6 kW
60 amps = 48 amp EVSE load - 12 kW
80 amps = 64 amp EVSE load - 15.36 kW
100 amps = 80 amp EVSE load - 19.2 kW

EVSE manfactures know this and adjust their products accordinging - the ClipperCreek HCS-60 refers to it’s “circuit breaker wire gauge requirement” - NOT it’s EVSE KW capacity which is 48 amps

the Porche PMC+ and PMCC EVSE’s are NEMA 14-50/6-50 devices, but when plugged into a North American 50 amp socket - they “know” to only pull 40 amps.
 

Jhenson29

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EVSE manfactures know this and adjust their products accordinging - the ClipperCreek HCS-60 refers to it’s “circuit breaker wire gauge requirement” - NOT it’s EVSE KW capacity which is 48 amps
I actually find this aspect to be confusing and wish they wouldn’t do it this way. It would make more sense to label by the load rather than the circuit. IMHO.
 
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daveo4EV

daveo4EV

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I actually find this aspect to be confusing and wish they wouldn’t do it this way. It would make more sense to label by the load rather than the circuit. IMHO.
actually it’s even worse than that

some EVSE vendors lable/size their products by breaker/circuit size
other EVSE vendors label/size their producct by charging capacity

so it gets even more confusing when trying to cross-shop EVSE from different vendors you have to be really really on your game and know all this to actually figure out if you’re buying a 40 amp EVSE that will charge at 32 amps, or are you buying a 40 amp EVSE that will require a 50 amp breaker

it’s simply way way way too confusing and most people are simplly ill-equipped to deal with this level of detail or complexity - and frankly I agree with them.

I’ve been trying to explain this to fellow EV people for years now - I feel this posting is my best effort so far and it still sucks.
 


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daveo4EV

daveo4EV

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and in the adding insult to injury category for complexity a LOT of 32 amp EVSE’s have NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 plugs on them - confusing people into thinking they have a “50 amp charger” - but in reality it’s onlly a 32 amp charger

the reason the vendors use the 6-50 or 14-50 plug type is because there is _NO_ approved/standard “40 amp” NEMA plug…

NEMA has standards and specifications for 30 amp plugs
NEMA has standards and specifications for 50 amp plugs
but there is _NO_ 40 amp NEMA plug type…

30 amp plug means 24 amps maximum EVSE charge rate
50 amp plug means 40 amps (or less) EVSE charge rate

so a lot a lot a lot of 32 amp EVSE’s actually ship with a NEMA 14-50, 6-50 or 10-50 plug cord…but are not 40 amp EVSE’s, 32 amp EVSE

now this is safe and no problem and completely above board, but it further confuses the situation in that not all EVSE’s with a NEMA 14-50 plug are actually 40 amp EVSE’s…

further confusion ensues, in that most building codes ”allow” the use of a NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 plug with a 40 amp breaker/wire gauge - as long as you represent that you “know what you are doing” when it’s being inspected...

now this is no actual problem or safety issue as long as you never exceed the 40 amp capacity - but after you sell the house and forget to inform the buyer of this little trick - and they then “see” a NEMA 14-50 plug in the garage and assume it’s a full 50 amp circuit - chaos then ensues and actual safety issues may come up…

electricians do this to save the $25 on the slightly cheaper breaker, and lower 40 amp rated wire…cause “they know” you’re only using a 32 amp EVSE so you don’t need the full 50 amp circuit/capacity...

it’s just really really a “sh*t” show

this all drives me nuts
it’s too complex
people don’t understand it
electricians are far and few between that offer proper guidance
building codes are a mess and vary regionally
and the dealers and sales people are 100% clueless

so potential EV customers get really really confused and more misinformation than a “Q” expo conference and then think this whole EV thing is a mess - and they are not entirely wrong.
 

Jhenson29

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actually it’s even worse than that

some EVSE vendors lable/size their products by breaker/circuit size
other EVSE vendors label/size their producct by charging capacity

so it gets even more confusing when trying to cross-shop EVSE from different vendors you have to be really really on your game and know all this to actually figure out if you’re buying a 40 amp EVSE that will charge at 32 amps, or are you buying a 40 amp EVSE that will require a 50 amp breaker

it’s simply way way way too confusing and most people are simplly ill-equipped to deal with this level of detail or complexity - and frankly I agree with them.

I’ve been trying to explain this to fellow EV people for years now - I feel this posting is my best effort so far and it still sucks.
It’s really unfortunate. It’s not as simple as ICE. Especially with people installing home chargers. I think basic understandings of charge, voltage, current, power, and energy...along with AC vs DC, and single phase vs 3-phase are all really required to figure this stuff out. And that doesn’t even touch electrical codes.

People can try to just match stuff up based on “this one goes with that one”, but without the fundamentals, they won’t realize when they’re making a mistake. That’s the real danger.

To be clear, I’m not criticizing your post. This is a great post and I can see it’s helped a ton of people. Just venting where I think we need to get to.
 
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daveo4EV

daveo4EV

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It’s really unfortunate. It’s not as simple as ICE. Especially with people installing home chargers. I think basic understandings of charge, voltage, current, power, and energy...along with AC vs DC, and single phase vs 3-phase are all really required to figure this stuff out. And that doesn’t even touch electrical codes.

People can try to just match stuff up based on “this one goes with that one”, but without the fundamentals, they won’t realize when they’re making a mistake. That’s the real danger.

To be clear, I’m not criticizing your post. This is a great post and I can see it’s helped a ton of people. Just venting where I think we need to get to.
I agree @Jhenson29 and I didn’t think you were harshing on me because I’m above being criticized and all my post are 100% spot on and never wrong, biased or opinionated ;)
 


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this all drives me nuts
it’s too complex
people don’t understand it
electricians are far and few between that offer proper guidance
building codes are a mess and vary regionally
and the dealers and sales people are 100% clueless
Good points about the complexity, but perhaps it is to expect too much that dealers and sales people should even have a clue about this! I think your point about electricians saving some money is the real issue.

If you install a 50 amp breaker, my simple view is that you should have the cable to carry that amp continuously. No ifs or buts! Things are hidden in the wall and can start fires or danger to people and it really does not cost so much more for that extra dimension of cable etc.

It is a bit like that here in France as well. The building regulations are so numerous and complex that very few installers follow them and it is difficult to understand what is correct or not!
 

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Excellent post and one that will help a lot of users. Thanks @Dave EV.

One question: are you saying your level 5 (50 am circuit) will allow the included-with -the-care mobile charger to be plugged in and run at 50 amps?

I am using that charger at home (on a standard 115VAC 15 amp circuit) and it will only allow 8 amps without a special "charging manager."
I just got my Taycan & tried what you did (the slow as hell ordinary plug). 8A limit. I got about 5% in 18 hours. A 50A circuit with the 6-50 or 14-50 plug will allow for 40A charging (circuits are rated for 80% of the breaker for continuous load).
 

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@daveo4EV, you mentioned in your OP that Porsche sells 14-30 adapters for PMCC. A couple questions:

1. I assume the adapters work for the regular PMC as well? (ie the standard one included with the Taycan)
2. Where can one find this adapter for purchase? I'll need one from time to time.
3. I'm guessing the answer is no, but I figure I'll ask anyway: does the Tesla 14-30 adapter for their mobile connector work with PMC? I have one for my Model S, I'm guessing it will be useless for the Taycan.
 

Jhenson29

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2. Where can one find this adapter for purchase?
You can buy a 14-30 supply cable for the PMC+ from your dealer. That’s what I did. They charged me $114 for it.
 
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daveo4EV

daveo4EV

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as noted @Jhenson29 you can get one via your porsche dealer - you can also just purchase a non-Porsche charger for not much more money than what porsche charges for extra supply cables.

if you own a TeslaTap/JDapter you can also just use your Tesla Mobile charger with the Taycan.

Tesla adapters don’t work with the Porsche chargers - as you expected

#1 - yes they should
#2 - your friendly local porsche dealer should be able to help you out
#3 - yes it only works with Tesla chargers - but Tesla chargers can charge a Taycan if you own a TeslaTap/JDapter
 

submatrix

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wow $114 for an adapter, crazy....

unfortunately I won't have the Tesla mobile charger for long as it has to go back with my lease return, so I won't be able to use it to charge the Taycan.

Do you have a 3rd party mobile charger you recommend @daveo4EV ?
 

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@daveo4EV, you mentioned in your OP that Porsche sells 14-30 adapters for PMCC. A couple questions:

1. I assume the adapters work for the regular PMC as well? (ie the standard one included with the Taycan)
2. Where can one find this adapter for purchase? I'll need one from time to time.
3. I'm guessing the answer is no, but I figure I'll ask anyway: does the Tesla 14-30 adapter for their mobile connector work with PMC? I have one for my Model S, I'm guessing it will be useless for the Taycan.
If you search Amazon for "nema 14-30 to 14-50 adapter" you will find generic adapters for ~$30.
If you want an OEM supply cable I suggest you first ask an Audi dealer since the etron charger is identical to Porsche's. Audi usually sells the same part number cheaper than Porsche.
Don't forget to lower the charging amperage to 24A if you use a 14-30 outlet.
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