Use of Tesla superchargers

JimBob

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Is this the usual fanboy talk or do you have data?
You are looking for boogey men under the bed. With the announcements of the last few days, Tesla will win the super charger wars when they open their system and add CCS.

Just think it through. In NA they have the best network by far. Not necessarily the case in Europe but the rules are different.

The number of EV's on the road is rising rapidly and the demands for capital to fund the network expansion are huge. And here is Tesla with the best supercharger network on the planet and they are going to need to raise billions of billions of dollars to build it out so they are going to capitalize on it. And Wall street will be there to sell Elon's high priced paper to the fanboys.

Tesla will be putting the best network together with the lowest cost of capital.

IMO, I think you are going to see Tesla IPO its charger network sooner rather than later.

Mrs. Musk didn't raise a stupid kid. Just an obnoxious one.
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mikeva

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First of all, I do not now, nor have ever owed a Tesla. Both my son and son-in-law do, however the vast majority of their travel is local. They both have installed charging equipment at their home with the 'Tesla plug'.

However in my experience there are only a couple of reasons why a company would create a requirement that one of their key product features is something unique in the marketplace. The first is a belief that their particular product feature works better than anything in the marketplace. The second is to keep any existing customer in the fold using the proprietary feature. I have not heard any discussion about how the Tesla plug is superior in terms of charging ability to another type of plug. Therefore I must assume that the real reason is to keep exiting customers getting something that continues to use the proprietary architecture when they upgrade. I have no problem with this strategy as it has a place in a quest for marketing dominance - especially when tied to an outstanding product. I am just not convinced that having a unique way for charging a vehicle is going to continue to be a deciding factor over the long haul.

If you think it makes a difference now then by all means have it be one of your top criteria in buying a BEV. For me, 99% of my trips are going to be local with charging overnight at home. Thus roadside charging stations did not even make the top 20 in terms of my criteria for choosing a new ride.

Finally, in terms of Musk opening up the supercharger network, I don't understand how that would work without one of three things happening - 1) he changes all of his plugs, 2) the other car manufacturers have a recall to change all of their sockets, or 3) there is a great opportunity for yet another adapter. I don't really see either of the first two happening so guess I'll watch for a new adapter.
 

fullmetalbaal

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Have you ever used it?
Yes, on two occasions. Not a huge sample size, I'll admit.
I'll figure out in two weeks whether that experience + the multitude of comments on the forum are a fair indication or not.
 
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fullmetalbaal

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and your opinions are based on what facts? the same facts that someone who shops in a wal mart is a danger to you?
It's not an outlier opinion - I think it's even consensus that EA in many parts of the country is rather weak. There's unfortunately no publicly accessible database, so we're all just forming opinions based on our own experiences & what we read on forums and on the various apps. In my neck of the woods, they don't even cover a number of states. There's locations with 50kw chargers, most locations only have one 350kw (if at all) and others that have been under construction forever. Because destination charging is just a cost from their perspective, they've not contributed in that space at all, and so customers are buying adapters to use a competitor's infrastructure. There's 3 apps for it, and a lengthy guide on how to charge to have the highest chance of success and how to research which stalls are defective ahead of time...

The Walmart opinion is based on actual incidents . Unprovoked, unless you call driving a 911 or wearing a mask (pre-vaccine) provoking people - no aggressive driving, the interactions were not initiated by me, etc. In one case I had 2 young kids with me (<6 yrs) and a drunk person was swearing at all people passing by and looking for a fight (around noon, and the person was standing near the entrance, so hard to avoid). That's not to say I'd never go there - but it's clearly a less pleasant environment (in my experience) than most locations for superchargers. I'd pick a Target location instead for example, if given a choice.
 
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fullmetalbaal

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Finally, in terms of Musk opening up the supercharger network, I don't understand how that would work without one of three things happening - 1) he changes all of his plugs, 2) the other car manufacturers have a recall to change all of their sockets, or 3) there is a great opportunity for yet another adapter. I don't really see either of the first two happening so guess I'll watch for a new adapter.
I wonder whether this is a play to be eligible for subsidies, and if they can/will try to tie it to specific stations that are being subsidized. In that case, they could equip those new stations with both plugs, or include some stations that are CCS vs. Tesla. IIRC they have worked out deals along that line of thinking on the East Coast and in Europe: partnering with a non-Tesla network at highway stations where govt approval was relevant.

A Tesla to CCS adapter would be quite expensive if it has to handle 250 kw, unclear whether that really would allow for broad adoption - though it might still satisfy whatever requirements emerge for subsidies etc.
 

daveo4EV

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_IF_ the supercharger network is made available to non-Tesla EV’s this will be good for all EV’s and push this whole thing forward…given this is Musk it’s hard to sort fact from vision…

but the network is already physically compatibility in Europe - so easier there…in North American a physical adapter will be required…

Tesla wil probably charge the owners of non-Tesla EV’s for the adapter pushing the cost of “converting” the network on them - example: Tesla already has a $500 chademo adapter for existing Tesla owners so they can use Chademo chargers if they need/want to.

I’d guess a $749 CCS adapter with some extra cable length so you can plug you CCS EV into a SuperCharger - plug&charge support (via the CCS plug&charge protocol) I’d given a 30% chance of happening - they will just say “use the app” to activate your session.

charging session activation will be accomplished via an “app” (probably a new feature of the Tesla app)

charging speeds will be good, reliabilty will be high as the existing network works really really well and is well monitored and maintained

there are 3 speeds of Tesla chargers in North American

72 kW
150 kW
250 kW

Taycan owners who thought they were making a great decision by saving $460 on a $150,000 because they did not option the 400V/150 kw charging option will be slightly mifffed to be limited ot 50 kW at a Supercharger - but we can’t say it wasn’t well discussed.

Porsche will take 3 or 4 years after this network being physically available to integrate it on their PCM navigation routing/planning - cause you know Porsche rocks the software and IT integration tasks…
 
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Kingske

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_IF_ the supercharger network is made available to non-Tesla EV’s this will be good for all EV’s and push this whole thing forward…given this is Musk it’s hard to sort fact from vision…

but the network is already physically compatibility in Europe - so easier there…in North American a physical adapter will be required…

Tesla wil probably charge the owners of non-Tesla EV’s for the adapter pushing the cost of “converting” the network on them - example: Tesla already has a $500 chademo adapter for existing Tesla owners so they can use Chademo chargers if they need/want to.

I’d guess a $749 CCS adapter with some extra cable length so you can plug you CCS EV into a SuperCharger - plug&charge support (via the CCS plug&charge protocol) I’d given a 30% chance of happening - they will just say “use the app” to activate your session.

charging session activation will be accomplished via an “app” (probably a new feature of the Tesla app)

charging speeds will be good, reliabilty will be high as the existing network works really really well and is well monitored and maintained

there are 3 speeds of Tesla chargers in North American

72 kW
150 kW
250 kW

Taycan owners who thought they were making a great decision by saving $460 on a $150,000 because they did not option the 400V/150 kw charging option will be slightly mifffed to be limited ot 50 kW at a Supercharger - but we can’t say it wasn’t well discussed.

Porsche will take 3 or 4 years after this network being physically available to integrate it on their PCM navigation routing/planning - cause you know Porsche rocks the software and IT integration tasks…
Yep, the cost of the 400V/150kW option was too low not to take it just in case...
 


fullmetalbaal

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Yep, the cost of the 400V/150kW option was too low not to take it just in case...
For me at least, it was less the cost and more the weight (however small) and the fact that adding more components seems to just increase the chance that something causes trouble. Right or wrong, I've been assuming that the more "Vanilla" I make my build, there's less risk to find some incompatibility etc.

An announcement like this doesn't really change the balance just yet - too much depends on the details: is this ALL chargers? just newly installed ones? etc.

For anybody looking at a configuration now and considering leasing, I still think the equation works out better to skip it. Tesla timelines usually need at least 6-12 months buffer, so IMHO this is at least 2 years out.

So, average lease being 3 years. ~500 for the option + ~500 for the adapter (assuming we need one, and taking a stab at the price) = 1000 for the chance to fall back to Tesla instead of EA on a road trip in year 3 of the lease. and it's not like 50kw will leave you stranded, you'd just top off enough to get to the next EA.

Anybody buying now and planning on keeping it for 4-5 years or more ... that's a tougher call but I'd probably switch to the "getting it just in case" camp :)
 
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Kingske

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For me at least, it was less the cost and more the weight (however small) and the fact that adding more components seems to just increase the chance that something causes trouble. Right or wrong, I've been assuming that the more "Vanilla" I make my build, there's less risk to find some incompatibility etc.

An announcement like this doesn't really change the balance just yet - too much depends on the details: is this ALL chargers? just newly installed ones? etc.

For anybody looking at a configuration now and considering leasing, I still think the equation works out better to skip it. Tesla timelines usually need at least 6-12 months buffer, so IMHO this is at least 2 years out.

So, average lease being 3 years. ~500 for the option + ~500 for the adapter (assuming we need one, and taking a stab at the price) = 1000 for the chance to fall back to Tesla instead of EA on a road trip in year 3 of the lease. and it's not like 50kw will leave you stranded, you'd just top off enough to get to the next EA.

Anybody buying now and planning on keeping it for 4-5 years or more ... that's a tougher call but I'd probably switch to the "getting it just in case" camp :)
Your leasing time horizon remark makes sense. I myself tend to buy my cars and keep those for six years or so.
 

Scandinavian

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Is this the usual fanboy talk or do you have data?
Not quite sure what data you would like, but I have charged our Model3 att V3 Supercharger a number of times. If the charging station has been set as charging stop and the car had about 20% SOC, I got well over 200 kW and over 100 kW up to about 70% or so. I believe the V3 can charge up to 250 kW. And just plug in no issues ever at any of the Superchargers. On Ionity there have been quite a few issues and phone calls needed to see if they could get the station to start. But I have never been left without charging, even if I have had to move stall etc.

I can send you some pictures the next time we are shopping at that shopping centre.
 

feye

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Not quite sure what data you would like, but I have charged our Model3 att V3 Supercharger a number of times. If the charging station has been set as charging stop and the car had about 20% SOC, I got well over 200 kW and over 100 kW up to about 70% or so. I believe the V3 can charge up to 250 kW. And just plug in no issues ever at any of the Superchargers. On Ionity there have been quite a few issues and phone calls needed to see if they could get the station to start. But I have never been left without charging, even if I have had to move stall etc.

I can send you some pictures the next time we are shopping at that shopping centre.
Please not, the internet is full of it.

I was talking about numbers like this.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-supercharger-6k-stalls-europe/

But still don't know how many are V3? The rest is old and slow, right?
 

fullmetalbaal

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Please not, the internet is full of it.

I was talking about numbers like this.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-supercharger-6k-stalls-europe/

But still don't know how many are V3? The rest is old and slow, right?
Agreed - overall station counts are starting to hide details.

I wish they all provided a better break down. Tesla: v1 vs v2 vs. v3 and urban.
EA: chademo vs. 50 vs. 150 vs. 350. (and similar for Ionity etc.) I'm assuming they aren't counting the L2 chargers they sometimes have at their locations, but the website isn't really clear on that either.

Some of them (looking at you, EA) have started listing goals and milestones as chargers "deployed or under construction". That's going in the other direction...
 

chrisk

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For me at least, it was less the cost and more the weight (however small) and the fact that adding more components seems to just increase the chance that something causes trouble. Right or wrong, I've been assuming that the more "Vanilla" I make my build, there's less risk to find some incompatibility etc.

An announcement like this doesn't really change the balance just yet - too much depends on the details: is this ALL chargers? just newly installed ones? etc.

For anybody looking at a configuration now and considering leasing, I still think the equation works out better to skip it. Tesla timelines usually need at least 6-12 months buffer, so IMHO this is at least 2 years out.

So, average lease being 3 years. ~500 for the option + ~500 for the adapter (assuming we need one, and taking a stab at the price) = 1000 for the chance to fall back to Tesla instead of EA on a road trip in year 3 of the lease. and it's not like 50kw will leave you stranded, you'd just top off enough to get to the next EA.

Anybody buying now and planning on keeping it for 4-5 years or more ... that's a tougher call but I'd probably switch to the "getting it just in case" camp :)
I totally agree with this and furthermore I really doubt any adapter will support more than 50kw. The adapter is hard to have liquid cooling so it will most likely have to limit amperage to avoid overhearheating.
 

Scandinavian

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But still don't know how many are V3? The rest is old and slow, right?
Yes most of the chargers are not the new V3 standard, but nearly are upgraded with CCS connectors and then have 150 kW charge. I guess owners of older Tesla’s with the proprietary connectors are not so happy since new stations all have CCS only.

And I would not call the older chargers slow at 150 kW. I would be happy if I had a good dense network of 150 kW chargers available. The difference in real use compared to the Ionity 350 kW chargers is very small.
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