Weight: standard vs PCCB brakes

Bry5on

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
184
Reaction score
141
Location
CA
Vehicles
'70 electric Jaguar, ‘21 Taycan 4S CT
Country flag
So I’m trying to finalize the spec of my 4S CT, and I’m set on a 4S instead of a turbo, but I’m having trouble with the brakes.

In most literature and posts where PCCBs are mentioned as saving weight they are being compared against the massive steel PSCBs which are undoubtedly super heavy.

The benefits of reducing unsprung and unsprung rotating mass are many, and I won’t relitigate them here, but for those of us who may want to optimize the spec of a 4S the choice is not obvious as to which will be lighter and more responsive. I’m thinking that the PCCBs are much bigger diameter, so they may actually come out as a negative for rotational inertia versus the 4S brakes (goes with radius squared).

Has anyone been able to source weights for each setup, especially broken out into disc and caliper weights?
Sponsored

 

jlee504

Well-Known Member
First Name
jeff
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
125
Reaction score
68
Location
Washington dc
Vehicles
targa gts
Country flag
I spec'd PSCBs, I only care about the brake dust and want to minimize that. I have PCCBs on the other cars I'm not sure I can tell the difference to be honest, I switched between two GT3s one with steels to one with PCCBs and couldn't tell the different behind the wheel
 

daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Threads
160
Messages
5,793
Reaction score
8,599
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
Cayenne Hybrid, 911(s) GT3/Convertable
Country flag
I spec'd PSCBs, I only care about the brake dust and want to minimize that. I have PCCBs on the other cars I'm not sure I can tell the difference to be honest, I switched between two GT3s one with steels to one with PCCBs and couldn't tell the different behind the wheel
I’ve tracked the same GT3 w/steel rotors and PCCB’s - at the same track - and you can tell the differerence - but IMHO only at the track - I’ve had lots of seat time in a GT3 @ COTA & Laguna with both steels and PCCB’s - there is less fade with the PCCB”s towards the end of the session - steels were slightly more spungy at the end of 20 & 25 min sessions vs. the PCCBs which had a much more consistent feel through out the entire session - but that’s the only place I’ve ever notices - you can drive fast enough legally on the stree to really exercise PCCB’s…
 
OP
OP
Bry5on

Bry5on

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
184
Reaction score
141
Location
CA
Vehicles
'70 electric Jaguar, ‘21 Taycan 4S CT
Country flag
I’m probably in the very tail of the Pareto of what matters here, but the engineer in me would like to do the math and prove that it does/doesn’t matter. :) Personally I’m assuming that neither will fade as this will see canyons and not the track, and I’m not hard on brakes in the canyons.
 

Mike in CA

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Threads
14
Messages
553
Reaction score
802
Location
North Bay Area CA
Vehicles
2021 Taycan 4S, 2019 e-Tron, F250 Powerstroke
Country flag
I had the opportunity to attend a Porsche tech session in Atlanta when I first got my 991.1 GT3. The GT3 had 380mm cast iron rotors as standard and 410mm PCCB's as an option and we got to handle them both. The weight difference was almost 11 pounds per wheel for the front rotors per the Porsche engineer.

The Taycan has 360mm front rotors as standard and the optional PCCB's are 420mm. The optional PSCB's are 410mm. There is clearly going to be less than 11 pounds difference between the 360mm cast iron and the 420mm PCCB's and you also have to factor in the weight of the larger 10 piston calipers on the PCCB's. I suspect the PCCB's still have a slight advantage but call it close to a wash weight-wise. The problem, IMO, is that the standard brakes aren't available with 21" wheels and, most importantly, they dust so they weren't an option for me.

The PSCB's can be had with the larger wheels and they apparently dust very little but they are almost as big as the PCCB's so the difference in rotational factors you mention has got to be pretty negligible. OTOH, my guess is that weight wise the cast iron PSCB's are easily 15lbs heavier than the carbon ceramic rotors at the front. That's a lot from an un-sprung mass perspective.

I'm not going to argue whether a given driver can feel the difference or how much of a performance advantage there is but FWIW, I think the numbers above are realistic. Only you can decide whether it's worth the extra money for PCCB's. I had them on my GT3 and I ordered them for my Taycan 4S.
 
Last edited:


andix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
221
Reaction score
235
Location
Munich, Germany
Vehicles
991.1 S, Taycan Turbo (4/21), others
Country flag
The PCCB is approx 5kg/ disc, saves ~4 x 5 kgs compared to the PSCB
However, as of model year 2021, the calipers are heavier than the now 6 piston ones of the PSCB

Frankly, the PCCB doesn't make sense on an EV as recup kicks in anyways and the PSCB is massive.
Avoiding dust is prob the biggest advantage of the PSCBs
 

DennisB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Threads
16
Messages
147
Reaction score
100
Location
Belgium
Vehicles
Yes
Country flag
Frankly, the PCCB doesn't make sense on an EV as recup kicks in anyways and the PSCB is massive.
Avoiding dust is prob the biggest advantage of the PSCBs
Correct, but it still looks cool when you have big open wheels:cool:.
 

Vim Schrotnock

Well-Known Member
First Name
Vim
Joined
Oct 20, 2018
Threads
23
Messages
1,005
Reaction score
1,459
Location
Cincinnati
Vehicles
GTB1 Race Cayman, Taycan Turbo S
Country flag
Outside of a light car on a racetrack, there is no way you'll be able to tell the difference with this very heavy car between steel and pccb's on the street. I would make the decision based on whether you want to eliminate brake dust, which is a bear with some of these wheels.
 


Mike in CA

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Threads
14
Messages
553
Reaction score
802
Location
North Bay Area CA
Vehicles
2021 Taycan 4S, 2019 e-Tron, F250 Powerstroke
Country flag
Not to be pedantic, but I just have to point this out. I know folks refer all the time to Porsche's stock and PSCB brake rotors as steel, but they are cast iron. Sorry.

Next, my almost 40 year experience with Porsche brakes is that they typically dust like crazy. The PCCB's on my GT3 produced no dust and I'm never going back to constant wheel cleaning or living with filthy wheels as I've done with all my previous Porsches.

I considered PSCB's. However, the difference in price between them and the PCCB's is "only" about $5600. There are plenty of options or option combos that people order all the time which cost more than that but that I have little interest in. So I decided to spend my "don't really need it but would like to have it" discretionary budget on PCCB's which have at least the potential for performance improvement. Plus, if nothing else, they look awesome!

Just my $.02.
 
Last edited:

daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Threads
160
Messages
5,793
Reaction score
8,599
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
Cayenne Hybrid, 911(s) GT3/Convertable
Country flag
the ONLY reasons to consider PCCB's for the Taycan are:

1. you're tracking it (not a good idea) it's fun but it is too big and too heavy and tracks lack fast charging to keep you running all day
2. dust management

dust management is what tips it over the top for me

although with regen carrying 90% of the load that's 90% less dust also…PCCB's are probably a big huge waste on an EV given very very low friction brake usage…

years ago I came to admire "monster cables" ability to "sell" stuff to people - I believe they hit their peak in terms of extracting money out of people with their "gold plated optical" audio cables (think about it)…pure money extraction with no shame.

that's how I feel about PCCB"s on an EV that has 90% of it's braking handled by regen…go Porsche!!!
 
Last edited:

jlee504

Well-Known Member
First Name
jeff
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
125
Reaction score
68
Location
Washington dc
Vehicles
targa gts
Country flag
for sure, but I think the OP was asking about weight savings. I agree on performance fully, I track on PCCBs and love it.

As for the $5600 jump to PCCBs from PSCBs I saved it used that for the Burmeister


I’ve tracked the same GT3 w/steel rotors and PCCB’s - at the same track - and you can tell the differerence - but IMHO only at the track - I’ve had lots of seat time in a GT3 @ COTA & Laguna with both steels and PCCB’s - there is less fade with the PCCB”s towards the end of the session - steels were slightly more spungy at the end of 20 & 25 min sessions vs. the PCCBs which had a much more consistent feel through out the entire session - but that’s the only place I’ve ever notices - you can drive fast enough legally on the stree to really exercise PCCB’s…
 

Mike in CA

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Threads
14
Messages
553
Reaction score
802
Location
North Bay Area CA
Vehicles
2021 Taycan 4S, 2019 e-Tron, F250 Powerstroke
Country flag
the ONLY reasons to consider PCCB's for the Taycan are:

1. you're tracking it (not a good idea) it's fun but it is too big and too heavy and tracks lack fast charging to keep you running all day
2. dust management
ONLY?

IYHO.

CHEERS.

As for the $5600 jump to PCCBs from PSCBs I saved it used that for the Burmeister
TEHO. ;)
 

Tazer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2020
Threads
5
Messages
172
Reaction score
202
Location
London
Vehicles
Taycan GTS, Turbo GT, Aventador SVJ, 812 Superfast
Country flag
In case you are unaware, there
the ONLY reasons to consider PCCB's for the Taycan are:

1. you're tracking it (not a good idea) it's fun but it is too big and too heavy and tracks lack fast charging to keep you running all day
2. dust management

dust management is what tips it over the top for me

although with regen carrying 90% of the load that's 90% less dust also…PCCB's are probably a big huge waste on an EV given very very low friction brake usage…

years ago I came to admire "monster cables" ability to "sell" stuff to people - I believe they hit their peak in terms of extracting money out of people with their "gold plated optical" audio cables (think about it)…pure money extraction with no shame.

that's how I feel about PCCB"s on an EV that has 90% of it's braking handled by regen…go Porsche!!!

Exactly. You could have the best brakes in the world but the reality of the situation is that the Taycan barely uses them. I have standard brakes and my wheels have never shown a massive amount of brake dust. I’ve done 5000 miles since December and it’s never been an issue.

also, in regards to weight, the car wash over 2.1 tonnes. Saving an extra few kg (in my opinion) isn’t worth a few extra thousand in cash.
 

daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Threads
160
Messages
5,793
Reaction score
8,599
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
Cayenne Hybrid, 911(s) GT3/Convertable
Country flag
or to put it more succinctly:

PCCB's on a Taycan are like Gold Plated Optical audio cables.

and sold/an-option for the same reason people make gold plated optical cables.

hint below for those less engineering inclined…
if you're transmitting data via optical mechanisms - the gold is purely decorative and PLAYS no role in improving signal quality of the cable. gold improves things when you are using electrical transmission methods - it plays zero role in an optical system since the light is transmitted by fibre optics immune to any conductivity improvement offered by "gold"

and just so we're all clear how big thick and bold the word "sucker" is tattooed on my personal forehead - my 2020 Taycan has PCCBs - would I do it again for an EV? No! For an ICE vehicle? Yes!

hmmmm -now that I look - yellow is very close to a "gold" color - and the yellow calipers are a lot like the gold plating on the optical cables - yeah I pronounce the metaphor complete!!

Porsche Taycan Weight: standard vs PCCB brakes 716gJpUnB9L._AC_SL1500_

Porsche Taycan Weight: standard vs PCCB brakes s-l1600
 
Last edited:

Mike in CA

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Threads
14
Messages
553
Reaction score
802
Location
North Bay Area CA
Vehicles
2021 Taycan 4S, 2019 e-Tron, F250 Powerstroke
Country flag
Well, this sucker is going to get great pleasure every time I look at my Taycan and see those big, beautiful, cross drilled PCCB brakes and yellow calipers behind Mission E wheels. Better eye candy than all the optional trims and treatments in the world and no regrets for the money spent.

And I might really use the hell out of the friction brakes on occasion; just because I can. ;)
Sponsored

 
 




Top