What happened to the 19.2 KW AC on board charger option ?

[bjinfl]

No longer showing on the porsche configurator, only the 150KW/400V DC charger is available as an option. Checked all models, not there.

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[chuckster]

I may have the answer to your question. I have a 2021 4s, my dealer recommended the 19.2 kw charger which I ordered.(bad advise) Upon further research and thanks to this forum I discover that to take advantage of the 19.2Kw charger you must have a hard wired home charger capable of delivering 80 amps. (Porsche does not offer one). The 80amp charger would require at least a 100 amp service (more investment for marginal return).
So my car is delivered and I discover that the Plug and Charge option is missing from my car. Reason: there is a software issue with cars that have the 19.2 kw charger!! Just informed by my dealer that option is being removed from configurator and that the fix won't happen until MY22 cars. So I have a $1680 boat anchor. Dealer stepped up and gave me a credit and took full responsibility for not understanding the option. I can still use the connect app to charge on the Electrify America fast chargers, but its the same process as MY2020 cars.
Hope this helps.

 

[daveo4EV]

I may have the answer to your question. I have a 2021 4s, my dealer recommended the 19.2 kw charger which I ordered.(bad advise) Upon further research and thanks to this forum I discover that to take advantage of the 19.2Kw charger you must have a hard wired home charger capable of delivering 80 amps. (Porsche does not offer one). The 80amp charger would require at least a 100 amp service (more investment for marginal return).
So my car is delivered and I discover that the Plug and Charge option is missing from my car. Reason: there is a software issue with cars that have the 19.2 kw charger!! Just informed by my dealer that option is being removed from configurator and that the fix won't happen until MY22 cars. So I have a $1680 boat anchor. Dealer stepped up and gave me a credit and took full responsibility for not understanding the option. I can still use the connect app to charge on the Electrify America fast chargers, but its the same process as MY2020 cars.
Hope this helps.

sadness for your issues with this feature - but big internet thank you for the update with the facts as relay’d by your dealer - this is great info.

 

[bjinfl]

Chuckster: Big thanks for that info.

 

[Jhenson29]

Dealer stepped up and gave me a credit and took full responsibility for not understanding the option.

I think consumers really need to be responsible for understanding these options, but it seems like it’s going to be a long, hard road.
The Plug and Charge was unexpected and there’s nothing your dealer could have done about that ahead of time. I received an email and call from my dealer about the same issue this past weekend.
But matching up kW for chargers and knowing about 50A receptacle limits needs to be on consumers at least as much as it is on dealers.
My dealer originally tried to tell me I had to buy the mobile charger connect if I add the 19.2kW charger. I told him there’s no way Porsche is requiring me to buy a 40A EVSE because I selected an 80A option.
I have the 75A Wall Watts instead.
https://wattzilla.com/products/wall-wattz.htm

 

[daveo4EV]

I may have the answer to your question. I have a 2021 4s, my dealer recommended the 19.2 kw charger which I ordered.(bad advise) Upon further research and thanks to this forum I discover that to take advantage of the 19.2Kw charger you must have a hard wired home charger capable of delivering 80 amps. (Porsche does not offer one). The 80amp charger would require at least a 100 amp service (more investment for marginal return).
So my car is delivered and I discover that the Plug and Charge option is missing from my car. Reason: there is a software issue with cars that have the 19.2 kw charger!! Just informed by my dealer that option is being removed from configurator and that the fix won't happen until MY22 cars. So I have a $1680 boat anchor. Dealer stepped up and gave me a credit and took full responsibility for not understanding the option. I can still use the connect app to charge on the Electrify America fast chargers, but its the same process as MY2020 cars.
Hope this helps.

well it's not a Total Loss - there are some faster L2 chargers in the wild - if you install a non-Porsche EVSE you will be able to charge your Taycan faster (70, 80, 90, 100 amp breakers)…

and if you have an 80 amp TeslaTap - and road trip with the vehicle you might be able to use some 80 amp Tesla Destination chargers on occasion while traveling.

sure Porsche messed up the option -but you do IN FACT have a 19.2 kW charger and if you can find a high amp charger while traveling you will benefit from it...

sadness still for the lack of clarity around the complexity of this feature, but you have the enhanced hardware and it will work when you find a working charger.

 

[bjinfl]

Daveo4EV:
I just read an old post of yours re 22KW chargers NOT being available in the US (for the 19.2KW in-car units), which would leave only the 150kw charger being useful here.
Can you confirm no 22KW chargers here? Will the 150KW unit be able to take power from a 350W EVSE, or would it be limited to 150KW max?
Thank you sir! Trying hard NOT to buy the MS instead.

 

[Jhenson29]

Can you confirm no 22KW chargers here?

North America doesn’t have a spec for Level 2 22kW. 19.2kW (240VAC single phase at 80A) is the max, which is why it’s spec’Ed that way from Porsche for the the North American market. But it looks like that option is temporarily removed due to the plug and charge issue that was discovered. Which is a shame because I would still pick 19.2 kW knowing it breaks plug and charge.

 

[daveo4EV]

Daveo4EV:
I just read an old post of yours re 22KW chargers NOT being available in the US (for the 19.2KW in-car units), which would leave only the 150kw charger being useful here.
Can you confirm no 22KW chargers here? Will the 150KW unit be able to take power from a 350W EVSE, or would it be limited to 150KW max?
Thank you sir! Trying hard NOT to buy the MS instead.

first off - two different methods of charging

• home charging and "slow" public charging is AC (alternating current) power - this is your garage/home and slower public chargers - slow chargers use residential grade 240/208 volt AC power (like your clothes dryer or electric water heater, or AC compressor, Electric Oven)
  • this is typically referred to as "L2" or level 2 charging - and loosely correlates with 240 volts vs. 120 volt (L1 - level 1) AC power sources
  • L1 charging is almost pointless - but is technically a "thing" @ 120 volts - the highest rate for L1 charging seems to be 30 amp breaker (24 amp charge rate) at NEMA TT-30 plugs found in RV parks
    • I have tested my 2020 Taycan at an RV park NEMA TT-30 plug- and it happily charged at 2.88 kW from this L1 power source!!
    • it was slow, but it worked!
  • the highest documented standard rate in North America for L2 charging is 19.2 kw - which is 240 volts @ 80 amps - requiring a 100 amp AC power breaker.
  • NEMA 14-50/6-50 plugs are 240 volts @ 50 amp breakers- 40 amp charge rate - 9.6 kW
  • you can purchase J-1772 compliant EV chargers (EVSE's) at most any charge rate from 8 to 80 amps from a wide variety of EVSE vendors - any standard J-1772 EVSE made by any vendor should be able to charge ANY North American EV (including Tesla)
    • you do not need a manufacturer specific charger for your J-1772 EV
    • this includes plug-in hybrids which also use the J-1772 standard, but are typically very very slow at charging rate because of their smaller batteries
  • Your factory stock Taycan will charge from L1 chargers as low a 8 amps all the way up to L2 48 amp chargers (60 amp breaker) - and anywhere in between - any J-1772 EVSE will/should charge your Taycan
    • but charging speed will depend on the capacity of the EVSE you are using
    • but you can use Chevy's stock L1 12 amp charger to charge your Taycan - it will just be painful slow - or the EVSE that came with your Leaf - again slow but functional
• public charging that is "fast" is DC (direct current) power - ChargePoint FastDC, Electrify America, EVGo, Blink

the two charging options are separate from one another and have nothing to do with each other…but both provide additional "speed" for charging if you are using a higher power charger

Porsche Offers (or offered) two separate charging "upgrades" Taycan

1. A $1,680.00 - 22 kW/19.2 kW AC charger upgrade
2. A $460.00 - 400V/150 kW DC charger upgrade

in europe option #1 upgrades the Taycan to a maximum charge rate of 22 kW for European home/public AC chargers - in the US this same option is limited to 19.2 kW because the North American J-1772 charging standard/specification only allows for 19.2 kW as the maximum amount of power an EV (EVSE) L2 AC charger can deliver - this translates into 240 volt AC circuit (single phase) on a 100 amp breaker - a lot of residential homes have a single 240 volt 100 amp breaker service for their _ENTIRE_ home - so many many residential homes simply can not "add" this much capacity to their residential electrical service to support this type of charger.

the #2 option upgrades the Taycan's compatibility with potential 400V Fast DC charger - The Taycan can charge at two different DC voltages at public fast chargers - 400 volts or 800 volts.

• [Standard Equipment] - at a 400V Fast DC Charger the Taycan's maximum charge rate is 50 kW
  • $460 option increases this maximum to 150 kW
• [Standard Equipment] - at an 800V Fast DC Charger (Electrify America) the Taycan's maximum charge rate is 270 kW
  • there is no factory approved option to go faster

the $460 400V/150 kW option is "insurance" to allow the Taycan to potentially charge fast _IF_ you encounter a public 400V charger that can charge at a rate greater than 50 kW - this type of charger is a bit of unicorn in North America - and there is valid opinion that this option may never actually be "used" in the wild - it's more theoretically beneficial than actually beneficial - but one never knows…

so the two options both "improve" the Taycan's potential charging speed, but they are completely separate from one another and have nothing to do with each other.

22 kW AC charging option makes a lot of sense in Europe because a _LOT_ of European public AC charging is 22 kW (France apparently is littered with 22 kW chargers from what I've been told) - In the US the 19.2 kW charging rate is a rare bird in the wild, and only for home users that can afford (both money and electrical capacity) to have a dedicated 100 amp circuit added to their existing residential service and existing home electrical system - you ability to do this is largely dictated by regional building codes and local power company regulations and service levels - you'll need to consult a qualified bonded/licensed electrician in your local area to assess your home and how much capacity can be added to your existing home electrical system for your dedicated EV charging circuit - YMMV is an understatement in this space.

400V/150 kW charging option refers to commercial public Fast DC chargers that are not 800V chargers.

it is my sincere hope this answers your questions, but it's more complex that it should be and one of the reasons there is sooooo much confusion in this area - there are multiple ways to charge the Taycan and each of them have different use cases and regions differences - so it's really really hard to sort.

 

[daveo4EV]

Can you confirm no 22KW chargers here? Will the 150KW unit be able to take power from a 350W EVSE, or would it be limited to 150KW max?

1. no known 22 kW AC chargers in North America - there is no published specification/standard for that type of J-1772 EVSE in the North American Market (Canada, US, Mexico) - 19.2 kW is the maximum charge rate with J-1772 AC L2 charging for the North American market
   1. even _IF_ there was a modification or new standard you would need a few things for this to happen
      1. a 240 volt circuit at 115 amps (92 amps charge rate)
      2. someone would need to manufacture a 22 kW charger for the North American Market
      3. modification of the J-1772 standard published an approved
2. 350 kW chargers are FastDC (not AC) chargers and are 800 volts - but can range in charging speed from 25-350 kW @ 800 volts
   1. the maximum rate the Taycan can charge at 800V is 270 kW
   2. no optional equipment needs to be installed to achieve this charge rate at an appropriate charger in North America (Electrify America chargers are 800V and some are 350 kW maximum rate, others are 800V 150 kW maximum rate depending on the site).
3. 400V FastDC chargers also exist in North America - most of these existing 400V chargers are 50 kW or less
   1. but there is potentially some 400V chargers that can go to 150 kW (although they are difficult to find (non-existent?), and it's doubtful future new charging locations won't installing 800V chargers
      1. i.e. no one going to the trouble to setup and permit a brand new charging site in 2022 and beyond is likely to say - yeah let's install a 400V charger instead of a 800V chargers) - the 800V trend and future is clear…
   2. the $460 Porsche options increases the maximum charge rate for FastDC 400V chargers
      1. if you do NOT option this $460 feature the maximum charge rate for the Taycan at a 400V charger is 50 kW - 1/3rd slower than 150 kW maximum
      2. if you do NOT option this $460 feature the maximum charge rate of the Taycan at an 800V charger is 270 kW
         1. which is unchanged with or with out this option.
   3. it has no effect on the Taycan's ability to charge with 800V chargers

 

[tigerbalm]

22 kW (France apparently is littered with 22 kW chargers from what I've been told)

Ireland currently has around 1,500 public chargers (sockets) of which 1,200 are 22 kW! The state electricity company (that runs the electricity network - rather than who we buy our electricity directly from) is rolling out a network of 150 kW chargers that all work from 400V.

So in Ireland (alongside our Ionity network) both Porsche charging upgrades make a lot of sense.

 

[daveo4EV]

Ireland currently has around 1,500 public chargers (sockets) of which 1,200 are 22 kW! The state electricity company (that runs the electricity network - rather than who we buy our electricity directly from) is rolling out a network of 150 kW chargers that all work from 400V.

So in Ireland (alongside our Ionity network) both Porsche charging upgrades make a lot of sense.

thanks @tigerbalm - I agree 100%

I'd like to point out any advice for charging coming from loser boy @daveo4EV is well intentioned but only for the North American EV market - consult other experts for non-North American EV charging advice

as @tigerbalm points out various charging option from Porsche may make more or less sense depending on the region of the world in which your Taycan is operating or will operate…

my general advice however is really simple:

• check all these boxes
  • outside of North America - check both boxes
  • North America - only check the 400V/150 kW box - it's cheap
    • the 19.2 kW option is very very unlikely to benefit you in the wild
• it's a $100K++++ car, none of these options "break the bank"
• they will make your EV charge faster under some circumstance you may encounter
• no one in the history of EV ownership has ever said…

Gosh darn-it and OMG my EV is charging way way too fast I just can't stand it - it should be slower.

none of these options will "hurt" your Taycan - but their ultilization may be low depending on your exact circumstances and location in the world.

but is is very very confusing due to the differences in AC vs. DC charging, 400V vs. 800V, regional differences/standards, existing and future charging infrastructure… it's just two darn confusing - I really wish porsche didn't offer these options and just made the car have the fastest charging options as standard - they are a high performance company - they offer high end brakes, suspension and other things, you should just get an EV from Porsche that can always charge as fast as possible and be done with - or tie It to the big/small battery - big battery gets all the "fast charging bits" standard, small battery gets all the "slower charging" options standard…

it's too confusing as it stands.

and dealers are ilequipped to advise in this space - and most EV customers have no clue either - and all of these options are about "potential" charging scenarios for certain circumstances that are hard to quantify or predict…it's like optioning a spare tire for if you get a flat by nail, but not by sidewall blow out - it's a beneficial feature, but only under certain circumstances that there is NO WAY to predict if it will ever matter - but you'll benefit from it if you happen to encounter it in the wild…

just check these two boxes and move on - but if you must choose ONLY one - the 400V/150 kW option is the one I'd choose, and leave the other one behind

 

[Torv]

This forum is awesome because without the knowledge and expertise of you all things like the issue specified in this thread would be lost on me, so thanks.

With this in mind, I called Porsche support this morning to see if my Taycan which is scheduled for production on 3/19 would be affected by this issue as I specified the 19.2KW option in my build because the sales guy indicated it would be a good idea—you can’t after all have too many charging options he cheerfully told me. I asked the support team if it would be automatically deleted. No one there knew the answer.

Porsche support, if you have had reason to call them, is essentially non-existent. The person I spoke with was great and super-nice, but he fully owned up to the fact that the support team knows nothing about the software in the Taycan or any issues related to options being deleted from the configurator and how they affect production.

Like it or not, Porsche has become a technology company and it’s up to Porsche USA to respond accordingly. For example, if you call Apple for support, you mention your product and you are then connected to someone familiar with that product. If that person is unable to help, your are connected to Tier 2 support. Porsche needs to do the same thing as the cars have become “computers” on wheels.

Finally, the dealers need to up their game in terms of being experts on the products they sell. It’s astonishing to me that there is wildly differing levels of knowledge at the dealer level. The lack of training is extremely problematic and should be addressed ASAP.

 

[daveo4EV]

Finally, the dealers need to up their game in terms of being experts on the products they sell. It’s astonishing to me that there is wildly differing levels of knowledge at the dealer level. The lack of training is extremely problematic and should be addressed ASAP.

having worked with sales guys now for several decades - it my honest opinion this is one of those inflection points in the industry where training will be futile - it's a brand new world and most of these people are hopelessly outgunned or stuck in the past - no amount of training will address the full lack of understand or motivation for anyone to "be up to speed" on these issues…you might as well ask them to become experts on wifi base stations…

also given the very nature of EV's the majority compensation models for dealers sales simple don't exist with EV's - my finance guy at my local dealer is 80% compensated on the extra service plans he "successfully attaches" during the closing process - when I bought my Taycan he slowly realized none of these programs apply to an EV - and he literally just blank stared for about 2 min when he realized this - and stated - I can't make a living selling EV's - none of this stuff applies…he lost ALL motivation to sell an EV in the moment - and frankly that's fine with me - the dealership in their current model provide very very little extra value beyond a delivery portal - the whole industry needs to be reset because of EV's - Tesla realized this like Apple did when they set up their own stores - the EV transition is going to be brutal - and the up-ending of the current dealership models is just the tip of the iceberg

personally I think the Taycan is too much money for what it is even by Porsche standards, but if you priced it close to it's actually value proposition (about 15-20k less than now) Porsche would tank their current ICE business - and frankly due to supply chain constraints they couldn't manufacture to meet demand - so Porsche can't price these appropriately without tanking their existing sales (who would buy a Panamera if the Taycan was $20k cheaper trim for trim?) - but the dealership network will have to be cut loose and this isn't going to make people happy…

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/02/vol...y-electric-by-2030-move-car-sales-online.html

new people with new skills…or better yet - get rid of the dealer networks, consolidate the service centers for "repairs" and delivery - and invest heavily in online ordering with sufficient data on the purchasing website that people can understand what they are purchasing…

"fixing" the dealers I believe is a futile investment.

 

[bjinfl]

1. 350 kW chargers are FastDC (not AC) chargers and are 800 volts - but can range in charging speed from 25-350 kW @ 800 volts
   1. the maximum rate the Taycan can charge at 800V is 270 kW
   2. no optional equipment needs to be installed to achieve this charge rate at an appropriate charger in North America (Electrify America chargers are 800V and some are 350 kW maximum rate, others are 800V 150 kW maximum rate depending on the site).
2. 400V FastDC chargers also exist in North America - most of these existing 400V chargers are 50 kW or less
   1. but there is potentially some 400V chargers that can go to 150 kW (although they are difficult to find (non-existent?), and it's doubtful future new charging locations won't installing 800V chargers
      1. i.e. no one going to the trouble to setup and permit a brand new charging site in 2022 and beyond is likely to say - yeah let's install a 400V charger instead of a 800V chargers) - the 800V trend and future is clear…
   2. the $460 Porsche options increases the maximum charge rate for FastDC 400V chargers
      1. if you do NOT option this $460 feature the maximum charge rate for the Taycan at a 400V charger is 50 kW - 1/3rd slower than 150 kW maximum
      2. if you do NOT option this $460 feature the maximum charge rate of the Taycan at an 800V charger is 270 kW
         1. which is unchanged with or with out this option.
   3. it has no effect on the Taycan's ability to charge with 800V chargers

By George, I think I've got it now! I have a 50amp 10-50 plug at home using 6AWG left over from my Chevy Volt days, and feel no need to go beyond that. And since Porsche has dropped the 22KW(19.2KW) charger, that leaves the 400V 150KW unit, for which I will check that box! Man, I too would be lost without all your help. Thank you all again!

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