Why did Porsche go to the trouble of designing an 800 V Taycan EV?

Chris_ChargedEVs

New Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2019
Threads
1
Messages
1
Reaction score
1
Location
Florida
Vehicles
Audi, Buick, M3
Country flag

ThomasDK

Well-Known Member
First Name
Thomas
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Threads
7
Messages
122
Reaction score
56
Location
Denmark
Vehicles
BMW I3
Country flag
Nice article!
One thing I am wondering when I read on the internet is no one is talking power loss!
Of cause the cables can be less, but the advantage is the reduced loss.
The power loss is I^2 x R, so going from 200A til 100 A is a sawing of 3/4! Not just 1/2 !

Hope you see my point
 

Nevadagame

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Threads
2
Messages
74
Reaction score
86
Location
Boulder co
Vehicles
Bentley Gt. C7 ZO6. Cayenne S. Panamera Turbo. Silverado 2500 Turbo Diesel
Country flag
Nice article!
One thing I am wondering when I read on the internet is no one is talking power loss!
Of cause the cables can be less, but the advantage is the reduced loss.
The power loss is I^2 x R, so going from 200A til 100 A is a sawing of 3/4! Not just 1/2 !

Hope you see my point
Are you saying that if the Taycan had the more conventional 400v system, and a single speed transmission (like Tesla) the range would be 150 miles? At least it’s better than the original Nissan Leaf.
 

charliemathilde

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Threads
2
Messages
510
Reaction score
437
Location
CA
Vehicles
911
Country flag
The car would be heavier and have worse thermals which would require more cooling which would make the car heavier still which would require larger batteries for the range which would be heavier and have worse thermals requiring more ....

thermal management is a huge and understated part of Tesla’s advantage. Battery chemistry itself is largely a commodity.
 

ThomasDK

Well-Known Member
First Name
Thomas
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Threads
7
Messages
122
Reaction score
56
Location
Denmark
Vehicles
BMW I3
Country flag
I am saying that the power loss is so much lover with 800 volts. And the reason the Taycan is not going more miles on a charge is a chose from Porsche! They developed the battery so it can deliver more power, don’t need to wait for heating and things like that. Se Tesla, you need to wait 30 minutes before you can reach the 2.6 Sekunde 0-60 time!
Taycan you can just do it!
And that cost efficiency.
next is wide and big rims for better handling
And of cause, the battery in a Tesla is used more aggressive, uses more %. And you do not use the hole battery on normal days, only when you measure the max range!
I think Tesla is a nice car, just comparing!
 


Nevadagame

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Threads
2
Messages
74
Reaction score
86
Location
Boulder co
Vehicles
Bentley Gt. C7 ZO6. Cayenne S. Panamera Turbo. Silverado 2500 Turbo Diesel
Country flag
The car would be heavier and have worse thermals which would require more cooling which would make the car heavier still which would require larger batteries for the range which would be heavier and have worse thermals requiring more ....

thermal management is a huge and understated part of Tesla’s advantage. Battery chemistry itself is largely a commodity.
Battery chemistry is largely a commodity for Porsche, and Audi, and Jaguar, and Nissan, and GM, and Ford, and Volvo, and anyone buying batteries from LG Chem. That’s the substantial reason “most” EV’s get 200 miles from “95kw” of battery and “some” who build there own batteries get 350 miles from 100 kw batteries. The argument that a more conservative battery management software improves battery longevity kind of falls apart whet you consider that the “less conservative software” has been operating very successfully for 7+ years with excellent battery longevity. (Please don’t point out a few high profile battery fires until Porsche has been on the road with 300,000 vehicles for 7 years service and has had no fires...). I’m not just complaining, I just don’t understand how everyone seems to avoid the obvious major flaw in the product. 200 miles range for a 200k ev is insane.
 

charliemathilde

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Threads
2
Messages
510
Reaction score
437
Location
CA
Vehicles
911
Country flag
Battery chemistry is largely a commodity for Porsche, and Audi, and Jaguar, and Nissan, and GM, and Ford, and Volvo, and anyone buying batteries from LG Chem. That’s the substantial reason “most” EV’s get 200 miles from “95kw” of battery and “some” who build there own batteries get 350 miles from 100 kw batteries. The argument that a more conservative battery management software improves battery longevity kind of falls apart whet you consider that the “less conservative software” has been operating very successfully for 7+ years with excellent battery longevity. (Please don’t point out a few high profile battery fires until Porsche has been on the road with 300,000 vehicles for 7 years service and has had no fires...). I’m not just complaining, I just don’t understand how everyone seems to avoid the obvious major flaw in the product. 200 miles range for a 200k ev is insane.
tesla’s battery chemistry is the same science as LG Chem. That’s my point. What is a lot better is thermal management, charging management, and a host of little engineering improvements that add up to a lot more range. A lot of people think Tesla’s batteries are better. Largely they’re not. It’s what they do with the batteries that is far and away the best in the industry.

200mi range isn’t some great flaw so much as the best the rest of the world can do with the technology today. Obviously it’s less desirable than 300mi range, but this is basically state of the art for not-Tesla. v1.0 has it’s foibles. It’ll change quickly over the next few years, and the battery chemistry likely will change in 5-10 years as folks switch to solid state batteries.
 

Nevadagame

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Threads
2
Messages
74
Reaction score
86
Location
Boulder co
Vehicles
Bentley Gt. C7 ZO6. Cayenne S. Panamera Turbo. Silverado 2500 Turbo Diesel
Country flag
tesla’s battery chemistry is the same science as LG Chem. That’s my point. What is a lot better is thermal management, charging management, and a host of little engineering improvements that add up to a lot more range. A lot of people think Tesla’s batteries are better. Largely they’re not. It’s what they do with the batteries that is far and away the best in the industry.

200mi range isn’t some great flaw so much as the best the rest of the world can do with the technology today. Obviously it’s less desirable than 300mi range, but this is basically state of the art for not-Tesla. v1.0 has it’s foibles. It’ll change quickly over the next few years, and the battery chemistry likely will change in 5-10 years as folks switch to solid state batteries.
I thought Tesla’s technology was open source...doesn’t that mean anyone could reverse engineer their car and copy the engineering?
 

charliemathilde

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Threads
2
Messages
510
Reaction score
437
Location
CA
Vehicles
911
Country flag
I thought Tesla’s technology was open source...doesn’t that mean anyone could reverse engineer their car and copy the engineering?
No. They’ve offered to cross license their patents with anyone. But none of the manufacturers want to give Tesla access to their patents. They may have open sourced some of their software but that doesn’t really help other manufacturers. Plus they HAVE reverse engineered it and .... had to change their road map.

https://electrek.co/2019/02/09/tesla-model-3-cost-surprise-porsche-audi-reverse-engineering/

But it’s harder than it sounds and some key techniques are a part of the factory not the vehicle. Once you start deviating from the model 3 in the slightest, you upset the balance of the rest of the design and end up more on your own than you might expect. Porsche doesn’t want to build a cheap Tesla knock off. They want to build something with better handling and suspension and braking ... which changes the weight and balance of the car causing ever further deviations from the reverse engineered design.

My guess is that the reverse engineering mostly told them they would get spanked in the short term and have a long way to go.
Sponsored

 
 




Top