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JayGT4

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  • ? Fast Charging Accelerates Battery Degradation
    Studies show that higher charging rates lead to faster battery wear, with faster degradation occurring when using fast charging frequently.
  • ? Why Faster Charging Degrades Batteries
    Fast charging throws lithium ions into the battery faster than they can properly diffuse within the graphite particles, causing lithium plating and eventual damage.
  • ⚙ Factors Influencing Degradation
    Three main factors affect degradation: state of charge, charge rate, and battery temperature. At high states of charge, the lithium ions have fewer available spaces, increasing the risk of lithium plating.
  • ? Temperature’s Role
    Warmer batteries reduce the risk of lithium plating, but temperatures that are too high can increase SEI layer formation, causing long-term capacity loss.
  • ? Practical Solutions
    Electric vehicles automatically adjust charging rates and temperatures to minimize the effects of fast charging. While fast charging has some impact, modern batteries and vehicle systems mitigate most negative effects.
Insights Based on Numbers
  • 5% degradation difference: A study found that after 50,000 miles, a car charged exclusively with fast chargers retained 70% of its original capacity compared to 75% for slow-charged cars.
  • Temperature effect on degradation: A warmer battery charged at around 25°C could achieve over 3,000 full cycles before significant capacity loss occurred, compared to cold batteries, which suffer more from lithium plating.

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W1NGE

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Here's a text summary (by ChatGPT)
  • ? Fast Charging Accelerates Battery Degradation
    Studies show that higher charging rates lead to faster battery wear, with faster degradation occurring when using fast charging frequently.
  • ? Why Faster Charging Degrades Batteries
    Fast charging throws lithium ions into the battery faster than they can properly diffuse within the graphite particles, causing lithium plating and eventual damage.
  • ⚙ Factors Influencing Degradation
    Three main factors affect degradation: state of charge, charge rate, and battery temperature. At high states of charge, the lithium ions have fewer available spaces, increasing the risk of lithium plating.
  • ? Temperature’s Role
    Warmer batteries reduce the risk of lithium plating, but temperatures that are too high can increase SEI layer formation, causing long-term capacity loss.
  • ? Practical Solutions
    Electric vehicles automatically adjust charging rates and temperatures to minimize the effects of fast charging. While fast charging has some impact, modern batteries and vehicle systems mitigate most negative effects.
Insights Based on Numbers
  • 5% degradation difference: A study found that after 50,000 miles, a car charged exclusively with fast chargers retained 70% of its original capacity compared to 75% for slow-charged cars.
  • Temperature effect on degradation: A warmer battery charged at around 25°C could achieve over 3,000 full cycles before significant capacity loss occurred, compared to cold batteries, which suffer more from lithium plating.

Yamn!
 

slothinker

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> 5% degradation difference: A study found that after 50,000 miles, a car charged exclusively with fast chargers retained 70% of its original capacity compared to 75% for slow-charged cars.

It would be interesting to know if the cars tested were charged to 100% or, if not, to what level and was that level used consistently?
 
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Scandinavian

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> 5% degradation difference: A study found that after 50,000 miles, a car charged exclusively with fast chargers retained 70% of its original capacity compared to 75% for slow-charged cars.

It would be interesting to know if the cars tested were charged to 100% or, if not, to what level and was that level used consistently?
Perhaps, but the data seemed to come from a Nissan Leaf! In a hot climate! That is an air cooled battery which quite frankly is of no use whatsoever compared to a long distance cruiser like the Taycan. More likely to compare it to a Tesla of any model!
 
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slothinker

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Perhaps, but the data seemed to come from a Nissan Leaf! In a hot climate! That is an air cooled battery which quite frankly is of no use whatsoever compared to a long distance cruiser like the Taycan. More likely to compare it to a Tesla of any model!
So as to the Taycan, there are no studies or prognostications comparing charging to 85% via, say, ElectrifyAmerica with charging to 85% at home using 220V charger over a period of years?
 
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Scandinavian

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So as to the Taycan, there are no studies or prognostications comparing charging to 85% via, say, ElectrifyAmerica with charging to 85% at home using 220V charger over a period of years?
Not to my knowledge, there isn’t.

However look at this excellent thread and statistics data to see that there is q lot of data. Some good but also some worrying.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...tery-degradation-data-by-taycan-owners.12815/

Some of us have had troubles with the battery and some have received a new battery as well.

Nissan Lef is a great car but not really for long road trips. Search the internet and you will find a lot of issues. Great to use for very local driving
 


Jonathan S.

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"A study found that after 50,000 miles, a car charged exclusively with fast chargers retained 70% of its original capacity compared to 75% for slow-charged cars."
That can't be right -- even such a best-case 25% degradation after merely 50k miles does not match up with either anecdotal accounts or quantitative studies.
 

MnLakeBum

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WindsurfUS1111

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Anecdotal, I know, but my 2023 Taycan with 12k miles recently gave into the “red circle of death “
Multiple battery module failures. At the dealership for four weeks with no indication when it will be repaired.

Never fast charged- only level 2 charging at home or on a few rare occasions EA stations.

luck of the draw I suspect
 

Sly_North

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"A study found that after 50,000 miles, a car charged exclusively with fast chargers retained 70% of its original capacity compared to 75% for slow-charged cars."
That can't be right -- even such a best-case 25% degradation after merely 50k miles does not match up with either anecdotal accounts or quantitative studies.
That was a study on 4 Nissan Leafs (2 charged on AC slow charging, 2 on DC 50kW). Air Arizona, Phoenix's high temperatures. With air cooled batteries. Basically the worse case.
Battery packs with active temperature control (Tesla, Taycan...) last longer. Especially in less arid climate.
https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-nav/fas...ttery-life-and-vehicle-performance-study.html
 

Vim Schrotnock

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"A study found that after 50,000 miles, a car charged exclusively with fast chargers retained 70% of its original capacity compared to 75% for slow-charged cars."
That can't be right -- even such a best-case 25% degradation after merely 50k miles does not match up with either anecdotal accounts or quantitative studies.
I agree - even with my 'bad' battery, which was replaced at 40K miles, it was showing 92% SOH and the range hadn't degraded significantly. 75% at 50K miles is terrible IMO.
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