Taycan drops camo revealing headlights, tail lights, rear side window

Raek · Apr 30, 2019

DrParis said:
So says the “ Genius “. It’s a wider, smaller Panamera. Just like my GTS

I mean...technically, my Macan GTS is just a shorter, higher version of your Panamera GTS.

And, they're all just really different versions of the 911.

And, that's just really an extended Beetle. They're basically just all the same.

OMG.

Friedrich · Apr 30, 2019

Raek said:
And, they're all just really different versions of the 911.

I agree with Raek. Porsche has an iconic design that is recognizable whether its a 356, 911, Boxster, Caymen, Panamera, Cayenne and Macan.
The Taycan should take all its cues from the 911, just like the Panamera, but hopefully more daring design. I do understand however, if you see two cars drive by and one is a Taycan and one is Panamera, and cant tell the difference, then the design team of Porsche failed. but I think the end product will be a more sporty sedan than the Panamera.

Therefore, on another note, I am expecting the rear tail lights of the Taycan to be similar to the new 911!!

TheSnape · May 1, 2019

Friedrich said:
I do understand however, if you see two cars drive by and one is a Taycan and one is Panamera, and cant tell the difference, then the design team of Porsche failed. but I think the end product will be a more sporty sedan than the Panamera.

Very true. But you can easily tell the difference between the mules and the Panamera - and esp. the latest prototype and the Panamera. The Taycan clearly looks much more like a 4-door sports car than a humdrum saloon like the Panamera. And the rear end is much more pronounced than the Panamera's.

domin1720 · May 1, 2019

TheSnape said:
Very true. But you can easily tell the difference between the mules and the Panamera - and esp. the latest prototype and the Panamera. The Taycan clearly looks much more like a 4-door sports car than a humdrum saloon like the Panamera. And the rear end is much more pronounced than the Panamera's.

I think finished product will look great!

Porsche Taycan Taycan drops camo revealing headlights, tail lights, rear side window 20190430_193013

TheSnape · May 1, 2019

domin1720 said:
I think finished product will look great!

So do I, actually - I'm pleased to see how much of the Mission E has made it into the design, the shape of the roof, the taillights and headlights, that feeling you get when you look at it unsure of whether its a sports coupe or a saloon.

And I feel people would be more pleased if they stopped comparing it to the Mission E - I wonder what kind of marketing move it was on Porsche's part to introduce a stunning-looking concept which it knew it would have to change the styling so it would be road legal, but instead compare it to other 4-door saloons - and not one which looks better than this springs to mind, especially not the Audi E-Tron GT and its questionable rear end

Big_Pete1999 · May 1, 2019

Raek said:
I mean...technically, my Macan GTS is just a shorter, higher version of your Panamera GTS.

And, they're all just really different versions of the 911.

And, that's just really an extended Beetle. They're basically just all the same.

OMG.

I believe we just found Jeremy Clarkson's ghost account

haha

Big_Pete1999 · May 1, 2019

TheSnape said:
So do I, actually - I'm pleased to see how much of the Mission E has made it into the design, the shape of the roof, the taillights and headlights, that feeling you get when you look at it unsure of whether its a sports coupe or a saloon.

And I feel people would be more pleased if they stopped comparing it to the Mission E - I wonder what kind of marketing move it was on Porsche's part to introduce a stunning-looking concept which it knew it would have to change the styling so it would be road legal, but instead compare it to other 4-door saloons - and not one which looks better than this springs to mind, especially not the Audi E-Tron GT and its questionable rear end

It isn't a "road legal" issue for heaven's sake!
If the damn 918 is road legal with it's gorgeous lines and curves, then the Mission E 100% most certainly can.
If BMW can make a car with suicide doors, so too can Porsche.

I'm not sure if it was you or Dee or someone else who said it, but I think you are right on the money, because honest to God, the day before I said the same thing to my CFO.... "Porsche messed up with the Mission E because they made it look like a quarter million dollar supercar, but they aren't charging a quarter million for it, and they don't want to dilute the value of supercars."

IF the Taycan underwhelms aesthetically, it isn't an issue of road legality or any other mumbo jumbo. It's that Porsche doesn't want to rob sales of their highest end cars because the Taycan would actually look better.

Which is likely why I'll end up yanking back my deposit and wait for an actual roadster type car like Tesla is making (but not Tesla as they'll likely be bankrupt).

TheSnape · May 1, 2019

Big_Pete1999 said:
IF the Taycan underwhelms aesthetically, it isn't an issue of road legality or any other mumbo jumbo. It's that Porsche doesn't want to rob sales of their highest end cars because the Taycan would actually look better.

That would be very disappointing indeed if true

DrParis · May 1, 2019

Big_Pete1999 said:
It isn't a "road legal" issue for heaven's sake!
If the damn 918 is road legal with it's gorgeous lines and curves, then the Mission E 100% most certainly can.
If BMW can make a car with suicide doors, so too can Porsche.

I'm not sure if it was you or Dee or someone else who said it, but I think you are right on the money, because honest to God, the day before I said the same thing to my CFO.... "Porsche messed up with the Mission E because they made it look like a quarter million dollar supercar, but they aren't charging a quarter million for it, and they don't want to dilute the value of supercars."

IF the Taycan underwhelms aesthetically, it isn't an issue of road legality or any other mumbo jumbo. It's that Porsche doesn't want to rob sales of their highest end cars because the Taycan would actually look better.

Which is likely why I'll end up yanking back my deposit and wait for an actual roadster type car like Tesla is making (but not Tesla as they'll likely be bankrupt).

Well said. Porsche certainly has the aluminum stamping and welding equipment to make the Taycan look exactly like the mission e if they wanted to. What we see now is another Panamera variant

Ron R · May 1, 2019

DrParis said:
Well said. Porsche certainly has the aluminum stamping and welding equipment to make the Taycan look exactly like the mission e if they wanted to. What we see now is another Panamera variant

Yes, but there are various DOT regulations that the car needs to meet in the US (and elsewhere). As an example of this, I got the honor of chatting with Dr. Frank Walliser at a PCA Tech Tactics event a few years back. He was in charge of the 918 Spyder project at the time and the 918 prototype had been shown to the public but not the production model. I told him I really liked the look of having the engine exhaust outlets just in front of the rear wheels. He said that although Porsche design folks loved that detail, unfortunately that configuration wouldn't allow the car to be road legal in a number of countries. He then said "we came up with something really different planned for the exhaust; we think it's a much better solution, both engineering-wise and aesthetically". This solution was having the exhaust exit above the engine.

I've followed Porsche very closely since the '80s and can say that the idea of Porsche adjusting the looks of the car just so it doesn't affect sales of their higher-end vehicles is something they would never do.

Dee · May 1, 2019

I think the 918 is a bad example in this.
Although it was basically the same as the concept, the 918 wasn't developed for the mass, hence the price tag.
Also suicide doors can be on production cars if they want to, the Mazda RX8 (steel) and BMWi3 (CFRP) have them, like I said before.
I can understand Porsche wants to take the middle road just because it's their first car in a new future but basically it's not the Mission E where everyone put their deposit down for.
I can also understand that new technology cost a lot of investments so they don't want to take too many risks.
It's either a very expensive supercar for a few or an affordable car for the mass.
It'll be a good car, no doubt.
If I really want it is with a little doubt now...

Big_Pete1999 · May 1, 2019

Dee said:
I think the 918 is a bad example in this.
Although it was basically the same as the concept, the 918 wasn't developed for the mass, hence the price tag.
Also suicide doors can be on production cars if they want to, the Mazda RX8 (steel) and BMWi3 (CFRP) have them, like I said before.
I can understand Porsche wants to take the middle road just because it's their first car in a new future but basically it's not the Mission E where everyone put their deposit down for.
I can also understand that new technology cost a lot of investments so they don't want to take too many risks.
It's either a very expensive supercar for a few or an affordable car for the mass.
It'll be a good car, no doubt.
If I really want it is with a little doubt now...

I was only using the 918 as the example to completely throw the road legality out with the bath water, because the suicide doors and fender flares and wide haunches has nothing to do with road legality. Less than nothing with road legality. If they can make the GORGEOUS 918 road legal with it's looks, they can do the same with the Taycan.

As to why they changed it from the concept, which they didn't have to do if they didn't want to, has 100% to do with devaluing supercars. It's really the only logical reason. On a mass market model, the price difference for not having a B pillar is negligible, especially at the $100-130k price point. How wide the panels flare out is what, pennies in added material per vehicle when you produce with the buying power/volume of an auto maker.

So honestly, the actual "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth" reason will be to not devalue Porsche's top tier vehicles UNLESS they shifted the price for the Taycan into the quarter million dollar range. Otherwise, why buy a 911 Turbo when the Taycan (taste dependent) looks better and is faster? But for them to do that, means it's not going to be a vehicle for the masses. So what do they do? They water down the look so it's not in direct competition with their premium ICE vehicles, and they can't price it much higher than it is simply because it's a 4 door "sports" car, not a 2 door supercar.

And if Porsche EVER EVER EVER comes out with a different tier for the Taycan that otherwise is identical except for a package that offers wide haunches and suicide doors, that will be them absolutely admitting that the only reason for this watered down generic look is to not compete and take sales away from their premium vehicles.

Dee · May 1, 2019

I don't think with today's safety rules it's possible to have suicide doors.
Unless you make the car out of CFRP.
That alone makes it twice as expensive, so there's your bathwater.
Just because the opening is too wide to give enough strength it needs either a lot of steel (makes it heavier) or loads of carbon which makes it expensive.

About the fenders and other style elements, I agree.
I think they missed a unique opportunity to blow the car world off it's feet.
That's the plug they pulled to get rid of the bath water indeed.
Still, I'm curious what they come up with in Frankfurt...

Big_Pete1999 · May 1, 2019

Dee said:
I don't think with today's safety rules it's possible to have suicide doors.
Unless you make the car out of CFRP.
That alone makes it twice as expensive, so there's your bathwater.
Just because the opening is too wide to give enough strength it needs either a lot of steel (makes it heavier) or loads of carbon which makes it expensive.

About the fenders and other style elements, I agree.
I think they missed a unique opportunity to blow the car world off it's feet.
That's the plug they pulled to get rid of the bath water indeed.
Still, I'm curious what they come up with in Frankfurt...

As am I
Is it September yet?

DrParis · May 1, 2019

Big_Pete1999 said:
I was only using the 918 as the example to completely throw the road legality out with the bath water, because the suicide doors and fender flares and wide haunches has nothing to do with road legality. Less than nothing with road legality. If they can make the GORGEOUS 918 road legal with it's looks, they can do the same with the Taycan.

As to why they changed it from the concept, which they didn't have to do if they didn't want to, has 100% to do with devaluing supercars. It's really the only logical reason. On a mass market model, the price difference for not having a B pillar is negligible, especially at the $100-130k price point. How wide the panels flare out is what, pennies in added material per vehicle when you produce with the buying power/volume of an auto maker.

So honestly, the actual "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth" reason will be to not devalue Porsche's top tier vehicles UNLESS they shifted the price for the Taycan into the quarter million dollar range. Otherwise, why buy a 911 Turbo when the Taycan (taste dependent) looks better and is faster? But for them to do that, means it's not going to be a vehicle for the masses. So what do they do? They water down the look so it's not in direct competition with their premium ICE vehicles, and they can't price it much higher than it is simply because it's a 4 door "sports" car, not a 2 door supercar.

And if Porsche EVER EVER EVER comes out with a different tier for the Taycan that otherwise is identical except for a package that offers wide haunches and suicide doors, that will be them absolutely admitting that the only reason for this watered down generic look is to not compete and take sales away from their premium vehicles.

Precisely. I was clumsier in my comment but the watered down production model is surely a marketing/ branding decision. Similar to Porsche neutering the superior Cayman chassis from a horsepower standpoint as to not destroy 911 sales. Totally consistent corporate thinking

Taycan drops camo revealing headlights, tail lights, rear side window

Raek

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Friedrich

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TheSnape

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domin1720

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TheSnape

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Big_Pete1999

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TheSnape

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DrParis

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Ron R

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Dee

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