Range

Ron R

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Ron, the Tesla isn’t “better” engineered, but it may be “more appropriately “ engineered for most people’s tastes and needs. Sure the Taycan will repeat full acceleration 20 times in a row, and handle the race track better, but at the price of 35% less “normal driving” range and that’s wasted engineering at a very high cost, as it applies to my needs. I want a highly spirited driver with the ability to create occasional adrenaline producing acceleration, If I could wave a magic wand, I would reallocate some of that German engineering towards the ability to drive my family on the occasional weekend road trip ( far outside of urban areas) and not be limited by range anxiety. To answer your question of why I am buying this car , I’m buying it because of it’s beautiful design, it’s performance, it’s exclusivity, it’s quality of materials and construction. I think Porsche built an incredible car, but that doesn’t mean I’m blind to fundamental mistakes made by the design and engineering team in what priorities they chose to emphasize and at what costs.
Ok. I appreciate your explanation, and I see your point of view. Where you and I differ is I don't view the tradeoffs that Porsche made as "fundamental mistakes". I'm an engineer; I pay more to own things that are over-engineered. Where some may think that Porsche (and most likely Audi) didn't know how to design a car that gives comparable range to a Tesla, I view it that they are much more conservative in the way they are handling battery management compared to Tesla.

I think it's great that consumers are given options on EVs rather than Tesla being the only game in town.
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Smarter engineers and better battery technology? Still can't figure why some are OK with buying the Taycan if you think anything from Tesla is better engineered?

I did not state that, I stated “Better engineers” and I should add... only focused on BEV’s that have produced more advanced battery technology. Tesla has been at this for 15+ years.

But, do I only buy Tesla, No. I can appreciate a good design and a superior interior and that is what I like about the Taycan...and, having owned 4 Porsche’s and have tracked 3 of them, I know what Porsche is capable of. The same reason why I own a GTR, an S2000 and a C63 AMG 507. All of these cars are excellent track cars that offer very different driving experiences, but I love them all. I certainly would not take my Volvo XC40 on the track, but it provides a good cross over/suv experience and can shuttle the family on road trips comfortably. My choice of car varies every day depending on my mood, it does not mean I only want to drive my Tesla, although, I would State that me Model 3 Performance satisfies many of my moods.
 

charliemathilde

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Smarter engineers and better battery technology? Still can't figure why some are OK with buying the Taycan if you think anything from Tesla is better engineered?
#1 chassis dynamics and braking. I have nothing but respect for Tesla and the model 3. It made me realize something was missing in my life (a new car). I’ve driven the model 3 extensively. It’s excellent. It’s now my default recommendation to everyone. But it does not handle like a German sports car. It doesn’t handle nearly as well as a BMW M, and certainly nothing like a Porsche. It’s an excellent car that drives like an American car.

#2 I want the EV market to succeed and for that it can’t be just Tesla. I don’t need 300mi range, and I love the Porsche driving dynamics so the taycan is a great beginning. It’s obviously v1.0 and has its flaws and a fantastical price. Well, I’m fortunate enough to be able to set money on fire to support Porsche entering the EV market. Because i can.

other people have various not-Tesla reasons. Build quality. Interior options. Whatever. The model 3 isn’t for everyone as terrific a car as it is.

there’s basically no reason to buy the current model S. The model 3 is superior and cheaper.
 

Skystorm

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I Guess the 4S With the big performance Plus battery will add 5-10% range.
And the base Taycan will get 5-10% even More range of 4S.
I think all it’s about the liquid cooling.
 

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#1 chassis dynamics and braking. I have nothing but respect for Tesla and the model 3. It made me realize something was missing in my life (a new car). I’ve driven the model 3 extensively. It’s excellent. It’s now my default recommendation to everyone. But it does not handle like a German sports car. It doesn’t handle nearly as well as a BMW M, and certainly nothing like a Porsche. It’s an excellent car that drives like an American car.

#2 I want the EV market to succeed and for that it can’t be just Tesla. I don’t need 300mi range, and I love the Porsche driving dynamics so the taycan is a great beginning. It’s obviously v1.0 and has its flaws and a fantastical price. Well, I’m fortunate enough to be able to set money on fire to support Porsche entering the EV market. Because i can.

other people have various not-Tesla reasons. Build quality. Interior options. Whatever. The model 3 isn’t for everyone as terrific a car as it is.

there’s basically no reason to buy the current model S. The model 3 is superior and cheaper.
I also want the EV market to succeed and expand. The Amazon Rivian announcement yesterday was a big step forward (although Tesla fanboys will be cursing it).

I don't see the Tesla Model 3, or even the Model S as a competitor to the Taycan. They are both EVs, but that's about it. The Tesla is specifically conceived as a car for the masses, and the Porsche is specifically designed as an exclusive sports car for the wealthy. A Tesla owner wants to be modern cool and hip. A Porsche owner wants the prestige and knowledge of a have a highly prestigious high performance sports car. Tesla simply doesn't drive like a sports car, even if it can drive as fast as one. its a totally different experience. In 2019, Model S sales have imploded from 25,700 in the USA and 17,300 in Europe, to 9575 and 5009 respectively for 8 months giving estimated annual sales of 14,300 and 7500 respectively for the year 2019. So sales are 50% of what they were last year. And less than 5% of the Model S even have the Ludicrous mode. The Model S allowed a high margin which allowed Tesla to survive enormous growing pains. I have ENORMOUS respect for Musk and Tesla in what they accomplished!

I don't plan on buying the Taycan until I can actually drive one, as I want to make sure that it drives the way Porsche claims it will drive.

I DO plan on buying the Tesla Y when it comes out as an everyday work vehicle. This last weekend I went to the Tesla store in Atlanta and actually looked at the Model 3. I took a closer look at the Model 3. My first note was.....WHO WAS THE IDIOT THAT DESIGNED THAT DOOR HANDLE? There is absolutely no way my 93 year old father could even open that door with one hand. Any one with arthritis would NOT be able to enter a Model 3. Then I opened the door. I immediately saw a gap of 1 cm to 1.5 cm between the door pillar and the upholstery. I literally could put my hand between the upholstery and the car door pillar!!!! I could see the wires going to the door handle. And this is the ONLY Model 3 on the showroom floor! And then I noted how the upholstery was attached to the plastic that was already loose from the car frame. It was simply glued on the plastic and then the plastic was cut to size, rather than the plastic premaid and upholstery wrapped around the plastic which is how anyone with upholstery experience know how something is upholstered!!!! So the thread sof the upholstery were loose, frazzled and sticking out rather than wrapped around the plastic and also glued on the rear. Incredibly poor workmanship and unbelievable that the car was on the show room floor.

Here is an interesting video from a Tesla Fanboy

Expect your car to be delivered full of DEFECTS?????????
Really? Really? Any other car maker with that kind of review would go under!

On the other hand, Tesla has the HIGHEST customer satisfaction of any car maker....Porsche is number 2, according to JD Power.....So despite the red flags, I will be getting a Y...:CWL:
 
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charliemathilde

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I also want the EV market to succeed and expand. The Amazon Rivian announcement yesterday was a big step forward (although Tesla fanboys will be cursing it).
I hadn’t realized this but Amazon is a big investor in Rivian, so of course it wouldn’t be Tesla. Also these appear specifically designed for Amazon as opposed to generic Semi or Pickups, and that’s not a good business for Tesla. Huge operational distraction from the Y launch. So missing this deal isn’t a bad thing for Tesla.
 

charliemathilde

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Expect your car to be delivered full of DEFECTS?????????
Really? Really? Any other car maker with that kind of review would go under!

On the other hand, Tesla has the HIGHEST customer satisfaction of any car maker....Porsche is number 2, according to JD Power.....So despite the red flags, I will be getting a Y...:CWL:
I’m not sure what to make of these build issue complaints. I know a lot of Tesla owners in CA and none of them have had problems. That’s not exactly scientific but then neither is internet ranting. Tesla does have a reputation for issues early in the production line, so maybe some batches more than others ? Dunno. I just know I’ve found a lot of extremely satisfied customers IRL and no pervasive issues.

i fully expect, like the model 3, the Y will be the best car in its class.
 

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I’m not sure what to make of these build issue complaints. I know a lot of Tesla owners in CA and none of them have had problems. That’s not exactly scientific but then neither is internet ranting. Tesla does have a reputation for issues early in the production line, so maybe some batches more than others ? Dunno. I just know I’ve found a lot of extremely satisfied customers IRL and no pervasive issues.

i fully expect, like the model 3, the Y will be the best car in its class.
As an example in the lack of quality, I went to the Lenox Square Tesla Store in Atlanta, Georgia last Wed, September 11, specifically to look at the fit and finish of the Model 3 and S. Here are my observations:
1. What IDIOT designed the door handle? My 93 year old father, or ANYONE with even a mild case of arthritis could NEVER open that door with one hand. Engineer must have been a 20-something millennial. GEEEZZZZZZ!!! The Model S handle is amazing!!
2. Then I opened the door, and the first thing I notice are wires going to the door striker plate! I actually took a photo. there is a 1cm to 1.5 cm gap between the door pillar and the plastic where the upholstery is glued to. These arent gaps in the sheet metal, these are gaps between in interior upholstery and the frame of the vehicle. The area I circled in red are the wires BEHIND the upholstery going to the striker plate of the door handle! I literally could fit my fingers behind the upholstery, and it goes all the way to the top, which I circled in yellow. Then, where you see the light colored upholstery, you see the frazzled threads of the upholstery coming loose. Even someone with BASIC knowledge of upholstery knows you wrap the fabric AROUND the object you are upholstering. There is NO wrap around!! And then you can see what incredibly THIN fabric is used. The interior upholstery of the Model 3 is not even 1mm think!! I am guessing thinner than the collar of my butten down shirt about 0.3mm!!!! Sorry for the quality of the photo, but Tesla (intentionally) keeps the light very dim in the show room....LOL. I have another photo of the totally inconsistent gaps in the sheetmetal on the Model S in the showroom by the drivers window, but because the room was dark (my Galaxy Note makes the room look bright but it not at all) and the car was a dark grey one, the photo didnt turn out very well. Now these are SHOWROOM CARS!!!!!!! I cant image what I will receive when i get my model Y, but I read there will be dramatic improvements in the assembly line for the Y. (A fanboy might want to call the Lenox Store and tell them to repair their showroom car....LOL)

The Tesla may be a nice car to drive, but it is total BS to put the fit and finish is even comparable to a Porsche. I totally get it that Tesla has accomplished an amazing and admirable feet in bring the production to 95,000 cars per quarter, but dont pretend the car is in the same league as a Porsche. I try to be objective, so I have NO intention of buy the Taycan until I can drive one (i have had the deposit down since January).

Porsche Taycan Range LenoxSquareTesla3
 
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charliemathilde

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I don’t think anyone claimed the fit and finish were comparable to Porsche. Some folks are apparently shocked at how much money Porsche wants above and beyond Tesla for that quality. And the badge. Dunno why they are surprised looking at the pricing for both the hybrid Panamera and the long-standing 911 business.
 

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Hey guys just an idea. Should we start talking about the Taycan? If I wanted to know more about Tesla I'd be on a Tesla forum.
It would be a pity if actual facts about Taycan's real world range would go unnoticed because of all this Tesla crap.
 

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Hey guys just an idea. Should we start talking about the Taycan? If I wanted to know more about Tesla I'd be on a Tesla forum.
It would be a pity if actual facts about Taycan's real world range would go unnoticed because of all this Tesla crap.
Point taken.....
....of course you cant talk about real world range until cars are actually on the road, so nothing to really discuss about real world range, right?
People, especially Americans, who drive much longer distances than Europeans, even the Porsche fans are disappointed with the Taycan range, then point out to Tesla with longer range, constantly comparing the range of the Tesla to the Taycan, so obviously a comparative conversation will ensue on the two vehicles. We already know the Taycan will be shorter range. If 375km range is too short for you, dont get a Taycan. So nothing to discuss....right?
My point has been because of the many other factors in considering purchase of the car other than justrange.....styling, performance, handling, prestige, fit and finish, brand loyalty etc
 

Friedrich

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Some real world range in a Taycan, note battery at 91% with 565 km range left....photo from Paulo on another thread. Is that about 620 km (387miles) real world range at 100%...too good to be true?....is it photoshopped?

Porsche Taycan Range TaycanRange
 
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Pyry

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Some other photos of the range display:




Obviously it adjusts the range according to speed, driving style and the drive mode selected.

Several independent road testers have been driving the Taycan around Scandinavia so I think we should get some impressions pretty soon:
 

Nevadagame

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Some real world range in a Taycan, note battery at 91% with 565 km range left....photo from Paulo on another thread. Is that about 620 km (387miles) real world range at 100%...too good to be true?....is it photoshopped?

TaycanRange.jpg
Has anyone information about the “media drive “ being reported on daily, here is a segment from day four about charging and range, Am I reading this right? Multiple drivers did 233 km (about 145 miles) and had 5% charge remaining? Please someone tell me I’m wrong. Here’s part of the article...

“The lunch, and charging stop, on the A7 at Aalbek at the 233 km point of a 320 km day, was after a section of derestricted autobahn. The new record charging performance for the drive, with a recorded 264 kW, was achieved thanks to Ionity's superb charging infrastructure — and a couple of our media guests arriving with less than 5 per cent of charge.”
 

felixtb

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Has anyone information about the “media drive “ being reported on daily, here is a segment from day four about charging and range, Am I reading this right? Multiple drivers did 233 km (about 145 miles) and had 5% charge remaining? Please someone tell me I’m wrong. Here’s part of the article...

“The lunch, and charging stop, on the A7 at Aalbek at the 233 km point of a 320 km day, was after a section of derestricted autobahn. The new record charging performance for the drive, with a recorded 264 kW, was achieved thanks to Ionity's superb charging infrastructure — and a couple of our media guests arriving with less than 5 per cent of charge.”
derestricted means free speed. If you go over 200km/h in an EV it will suck a lot of electrons so I would say, depending on their speed, that 233km is really quite good range at high speed....... but again I have no idea what speed they did do just that they say they were on a non speed restricted part of the autobahn.......
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