11kw now - 22kw mid 2020

Discussion in 'Pricing, Reserving, Ordering, Production' started by Taycan_Rolf, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. Taycan_Rolf

    Taycan_Rolf Member

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    Hi all,
    As you may know Taycan can‘t use 22kw AC loader at the moment. Only 11kw ac.
    Porsche will support 22kw ac loader up from week 25 next year.

    Nobody from Porsche can’t answer me at the moment the question, if you can upgrade a delivered Taycan from 11kw to 22kw over a software update or over a hw update. In general if existing Taycan owner are even able to upgrade?
    This is for me the technical show stopper at the moment since I did not have any insides on this issue.

    Anybody has proved Infos on this?
    Thx
    Rolf
     
  2. Eisbärenhöhle

    Eisbärenhöhle Well-Known Member

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    Hi Rolf!

    I‘m 100% sure that this is a hardware thing ... no software update possible.

    More tricky is the question if Porsche is changing it to 22kW for free ... my sales agent said yes (and is written/confirmed in my contract of sale) ... but if it‘s true for all? ... I don‘t know ...
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Taycan_Rolf

    Taycan_Rolf Member

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    So interesting you get a statement that an upgrade is possible. Porsche Germany won’t give me a statement in this this time. I mean, I have no problem to pay on this upgrade (a bit). But it is unclear , if they can do an upgrade at all (or not).
    This is one of the open point to draw my contract for a 4S next week.
     
  4. KerbMonster

    KerbMonster New Member

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    Is 22kw AC that much of a showstopper?
    Tesla have been at 9kw for year until recently. the 150kw dc should be standard though
     
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  5. Rollep

    Rollep Well-Known Member

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    It's very important to me.

    I certainly expect Porsche to let us early adopters buy this option when It becomes available, free retrofit goes without saying.
     
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  6. AlmaRex

    AlmaRex New Member

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    This is not true, my Tesla P85+ from 2013 do charge AC at 22kW. I would expect a Porsche Taycan from 2020 to have this option. I will not order until they deliver with or assures free upgrade when available. This and the lack of the HUD is disappointing.
     
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  7. Jenner

    Jenner Well-Known Member

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    Ditto.

    Why would anyone not want the possibility to charge faster when charge time is one of the slowest things and biggest grips about EVs along with range. Until these can charge in 5 min to 80% faster charger is always a great thing to have. If Porsche doesn't retrofit early Taycan owners whose limited charge speed models won't be nearly as desirable on the used car market down the road.

    I'm delaying mine as I want the aluminum roof (June 2020 builds) not the forced sunroof so I am hoping the 22kW issue is cleared up by then. If it's not then I guess I'll be delaying my order longer but for this price they are going to build it how I want it.
     
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  8. KerbMonster

    KerbMonster New Member

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    The default rate for Tesla was 11kw up to 2016.
    The higher rates were options (‘dual charger’).

    I still personally struggle to see why 22kw is a showstopper for the whole car. It’s really only for home charging and 11kw should get from 20-80% in about 5 hours.
    Annoying? Perhaps but I’m still getting a11kw one soon as possible
     
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  9. Scandinavian

    Scandinavian Member

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    I can understand the point that 11kW is sufficient for home charging. I have that for my Model3 at home and it is great for overnight charging at low night rates!

    But when travelling around and you do not find a Supercharger nearby and need to juice up before you reach the next Supercharger, 11 kW is far too slow! There are quite a lot of chargers at motorway restaurants etc that have max 22 kW charging posts in France and in UK. Having a short break with something to eat brings some charge to the car for onwards travel to a fast charger. There is nothing worse than to have to stand around with family waiting for the car to charge. You will not get a “full” charge but sufficient.

    For me it will also be a a longer wait for the Taycan if they will not allow the free upgrade to 22kW.m
     
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  10. felixtb

    felixtb Well-Known Member

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    I think here in lies the difference between our brethren on the forum whom do not have a long range EV or no EV at all and the ones that do have a long range EV probably as an only car........ We are all fine with a relatively slow over night charge but during the wake hours when you might suddenly need more range than you have at that moment and there are no DC chargers between where you are and where you have to be in a relative hurry, it quickly becomes a headache with only 11KW AC charging or slower. At this point in an ICE you go to a nearby gas station and fill for as long as you want to take the time to and get to your destination with a slight delay. In an EV with only 11KW AC charging or less you will suddenly be really quite late or miss the occasion completely....... Therefore it IS important that we can get the 22KW AC charger retro fitted and I think the more people that battle for this the more likely it is that we can retrofit when the bigger charger is available..... However, I will not delay my Taycan because of it, since I have more than one car and hopefully at least one will have enough charge to get me where I need to go. :)

    I know you whom have Model 3s will beg to differ BUT there is a real difference in weight and efficiency between the Taycan and the 3 so a much smaller charge will get you further in the 3 than the Taycan so not comparable... You have to compare with the S or the X to get a real correlation.
     
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  11. Singularity

    Singularity Active Member

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    As I have no experience with electric cars yet, this is for me all speculation in terms of what will be problematic and what won't. Also the development of the local charging network will have a major effect on this.

    But, my view at the moment is that this 11kw/22kw AC issue is a minor annoyance. I will be relying mostly on home charging (11kw) and the 50kw DC chargers that do exist in many places, and the few 350kw Ionity chargers there are at the moment. It is not my idea to rely on 22kw chargers anyway, those are for supplementary charging when going somewhere for some other reason than to charge. When I really want to primarily charge, I'm not going to a 22kw charger unless there is no choice (which I expect to be rarely). So, the fact that I can only draw 11kw from the supplementary charging is not going to be the end of the world.

    I do understand the problem better in countries where the charging network sucks. Here in Finland we do have the 50kw DC chargers in a lot of places, so the 22kw should be only for supplementary charging. And I expect this situation to improve quite a lot, three Ionity stations opening up this year etc. One of them is in an important route for me. Ideally the 22kw chargers are for plug-in hybrids, not really for full electric cars.

    That being said, I would appreciate a free upgrade to 22kw for sure :) It's just not something that's very important to me.
     
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  12. Jenner

    Jenner Well-Known Member

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    #12 Jenner, Nov 5, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
    Exactly! Home charging! Where most of your EV charging is done.
    80% will take place at home is the EV rule of thumb but some of us will do 100% of our charging at home as the nearest fast charge is so far away it would take ~2 hours round trip to to drive there, charge and drive back (plus you don't have 100% charge by the time you are done).

    Don't plan on even 11kW at launch:
    "Porsche caps the Taycan at 9.6 kW, at least for now; future Taycan models are rumored to feature a 22-kW onboard AC charger. To be fair, Porsche quotes a zero to 100 percent recharge time of 9.5 hours at 9.6 kW."

    I expect real world charging time @ 9.6kW to be around 10-11 hours. This is only 4.5-5 hours @ 22kW.

    I understand you won't ever be charging from 0%, but who wants that car to be useless for 4-5 hours should you want to take it somewhere and need a 50% charge to get there and back. With 22kW you can add usable range in minutes not hours to the tune of ~50 miles of range in 30 minutes from your primary charging place ie home. If you have 25 miles left in the battery and need to go 100 miles you only need to charge for around 80-90 minutes @ 22kW, but you need 3 hours with 11kW to do the same thing!

    I said this before in another thread until you can recharge aka fill up from 5% to 100% in 5 minutes from nearly 200,000 locations (like we do with gas stations currently in the US) I only see having the fastest charging rates as possible at home as a very good thing with zero negatives.

    Since we are talking about Porsche needing to upgrade or replace hardware inside the Taycan to do 22kW and since Porsche never does anything free I am skeptical of rushing to order my Taycan with the promise of a 22kW "free" upgrade unless I have something in writing. I also need to wait for the aluminum roof so it's not a worry for me at this time.
    YMMV.
     
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  13. felixtb

    felixtb Well-Known Member

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    The upgrade will most certainly not be free but it will be well worth it and pay for itself in no time.
     
  14. Scandinavian

    Scandinavian Member

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    OTE="Singularity, post: 6110, member: 476"]As I have no experience with electric cars yet, this is for me all speculation in terms of what will be problematic and what won't. Also the development of the local charging network will have a major effect on this.

    But, my view at the moment is that this 11kw/22kw AC issue is a minor annoyance. I will be relying mostly on home charging (11kw) and the 50kw DC chargers that do exist in many places, and the few 350kw Ionity chargers there are at the moment. It is not my idea to rely on 22kw chargers anyway,

    I Agréé with you Singularity, I would also hope that IONITY chargers will be rolled out much quicker.

    I have just done a 3000 km round trip from Genoa to Biarritz to Bordeaux and back in our Model3. We have used the website https://abetterrouteplanner.com to plan our trip! With the Tesla Supercharger network it worked nearly all the way. One IONITY station came to our rescue, and it had 4 charging stations. A lot of the other charging stations had 22 kW AC or 50kW DC chargers listed. There were two issues with those: One there were normally just one charging stations in place, and Two in a few places the did not work at all. In some other places you needed subscriptions to some unknown networks if you wanted to charge, it was not possible with a credit card. The only way to get juiced up was to look for another 22kW AC charger and slowly charge . The Model 3 limits the charge rate on AC to 11W! So I have experience of the wait!

    My aim for the Taycan is to use it as a GT cruiser around Europe so charging times will be important. And I also o not want to be too restricted to only drive at 110 km/h on the Autobahn to reach the next IONITY charger. Try out that route planner if you have never seen it before. It is in my experience very accurate!
     
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  15. charliemathilde

    charliemathilde Well-Known Member

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    I get this is important for some folks, but I’d rather not wait. I can charge both at work and home and only need to charge once a week for my commute... or just charge an hour a day overnight.
     
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