Featured 2020 Taycan 4S Revealed by Porsche!

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by bihus, Oct 13, 2019.

  1. OHWHATDA

    OHWHATDA Member

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    It's going to be very hard to beat the performance per dollar of the Model 3 Performance. Road and Track measured 0-60 time of 3.3 seconds, 0-100 in 8.6, and quarter mile of 11.8 seconds. This includes a 1 foot roll-out as most magazines include so a 4S should post pretty similar numbers when tested similarly. But it's hard to put a price on quality, fit and finish, and a car that actually looks really good. Model 3's are so common in LA, they're probably the most common car I see out on the road. And the car looks bulbous, so you'd have to settle with driving an appliance.
     
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  2. AlphaG

    AlphaG Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you’re more interested in exclusivity than a great car. Fortunately, for you, the Taycan will be both. At least for a few years....
     
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  3. svp6

    svp6 Member

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    Tesla model 3 is really a great car - I owned 2 so far (long range RWD, then performance AWD). The white interior is very elegant, if very simple. The non-leather interior feels actually better to the touch than the model S. Drive is better than any of my previous cars (
    BMW 650, Merc E coupe, Merc roadster, couple Audis etc)
    - never owned a Porsche though. What it misses is refinement. I would rally not mind paying 20k more for the car if it had the interior refinement and quality of a Porsche.

    Tesla model S is getting long in the tooth. The interior is too primitive 7 years after introduction, and quality of materials not what you expect in this price range. Fit and finish are below model 3 now, battery technology is also lagging behind the 3 (faster charging). In many ways, other than the improvement in 0-60 times and the more recent improved suspension, I do not feel there is enough of me to want another one after owning a P85D for 3 years of lease.

    The Taycan is simply gorgeous, and looking at other Porsche cars I am convinced interior will be impeccable. After 3 Tesla's I realized that I do not need a sub 3 seconds 0-60 - in fact I hardly ever floor the model 3 (it frequently gives neck pain and dizziness to passengers). For me the 3.8 s of the Taycan 4S is more than I will need. Can't wait to get it next year.

    There are few things I am going to miss from Tesla - most important being the user interface. That big screen is unbelievably well thought and very easy to navigate through. The Taycan menus seem overly complicated from the demo's I've seen. They eliminated the knobs, but not the structures associated with them. Should take a page from Tesla.... Autopilot, homelink with geofencing, summon are also neat features that should be easy to implement for Porsche.
     
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  4. Jenner

    Jenner Well-Known Member

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    svp6 I agree with most of your comments on Tesla and your post overall but I just had to comment on a few things :D

    Since you haven't owned a Porsche before I promise you the interior will be even better in person compared to the Porsche configuration graphics or pics on the web. The Tesla interiors (esp the Model S) as you noted is a joke, I am sure Tesla will refresh the S interior in the near future but I don't expect it to come close to Porsche and they won't ever have the customization options Porsche does (many of which are missing on the Taycan at launch like deviated stitching etc)

    Just look at these two door images!
    Download?OpenAgent&attachmentid=1660156&show=1.jpg
    68cd7bb238354c92afba6868021f6b80.jpg


    Auto pilot in a Porsche? No, just no!
    This is not and never will be Porsche, this is not what Porsche drivers want from Porsche (maybe some badge whore types do but not the bulk of the customer base). No one passionate about driving and paying this much for a "drivers car" or "driving experience" wants a car to drive itself for them.
    Just look at the reviews talking about how Porsche spent time and effort to make the brake pedal feel between friction brakes and regen (recoup) brakes to be transparent to the driver so it drives more like a normal car. This is even more important for performance/track type driving. And the Taycan has the most regen (recoup) of any EV out there at 265kW and yet its transparent! That's a feature not a fault, yet look at all the reviews that fault the Taycan for not having 1 pedal driving. These reviewers are not familiar with Porsche and not understanding who Porsche is and what their customers want from a drivers car not an automated sofa.
    I can understand the argument that for the outliers or those new to the brand (but not new to EVs) it would have been nice if Porsche made this a toggle setting, but I think Porsche is too true to their core values and principles to do this (or too stubborn or they'll sell it to you as a $500 option :CWL:)

    Tesla's Summon "feature" is a hot mess. If you aren't aware of this just google "tesla summon fail" and look how many accidents there have been with their own garage doors, or in parking lots. It is not ready for the real world and not ready for your "average Joe" to control. No one wants a half baked feature like this in a Porsche so it can auto crash your expensive Taycan for you because you were too lazy to walk to it.
    If Porsche were to do this tech right in 2020 the complexity, weight and cost it would add (to do it right) don't make any sense in a performance sports car.
     
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  5. svp6

    svp6 Member

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    Jenner, I see what you say about driving pleasure. For long roads though I still prefer the autopilot - that is why I ordered the Innodrive. I do frequently a 200 mile round trip, I find myself enjoying much more in autopilot. I am still looking at the road, but not having to adjust the wheel constantly helps relax more. If I get on a winding road stretch, that is when manual driving is at its best and I usually take over :)

    For the summon, I find it very useful when an idiot parks too close to my car - which is not that infrequent. Sometimes I think other drivers do this on purpose - much like the keying of expensive cars... I never use summon for other stuff.

    I forgot also the Tesla sentry mode. That is brilliant, all high-end manufacturers should implement it since most do have multiple cameras installed.

    I hope Porsche will keep their ears open - there is no reason not to take over great ideas from Tesla, then present them as software upgrades.
     
  6. Jenner

    Jenner Well-Known Member

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    #51 Jenner, Oct 18, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
    I love this review of InnoDrive:
    "But forget InnoDrive's limitations at your own risk. Well, yours and everyone around you, because expecting the system to do things it can't—like, say, stop at an intersection—is a recipe for a crash. It doesn't turn a Porsche into a self-driving car; it's not even quite Tesla's Autopilot, not Mercedes-Benz's Drive Pilot. It'd be unfair to call it a lesser system; it simply has a different set of priorities, ones more in line with the spirit of the company that created it, which has always lived at the the intersection of technology and performance.

    So what, exactly, is it for? That's the question I struggled with while steering—I can't really call it driving, not with my feet free to dance a jig as the car wound its way through turn after turn—through the paved, winding paths north of Stuttgart. The system is of no use on wide-open highways, where the curves are so gentle, if you have to slow down for them you're doing it wrong. It's made for use on two-lanes laden with crests and curves. Thing is...don't people buy Porsches specifically because they enjoy things like driving down back roads? A Porsche designed to drive itself down a fun stretch of asphalt seems like a sex doll designed only to pleasure itself while you watch.

    The best real-world use I could come up with for InnoDrive was as a sort of "sightseeing mode." On winding roads you've never driven before, it's far better than you at knowing when to brake or how hard to hit the gas, delivering silky-smooth inputs and leaving you to steer while admiring the scenery. If ever leaf-peeper in New England used InnoDrive, the nightmare that is foliage traffic would vanish instantly. Likewise, if you were more interested in taking in the sights of California's Highway 1 than driving it, InnoDrive would be a perfect co-pilot. But if that were the case...why the hell did you buy a Porsche in the first place?"


    Without a doubt that is a great feature. But then again I question how much Porsche would charge for it. Just to add surround cameras to the existing parking sensors and rear view camera is a $1200 option already!
     
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  7. TheSnape

    TheSnape Well-Known Member

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    I would aim for Turbo S - I want the Taycan in its most powerful, best form, but if I was really cash strapped, I would see the value in something looking so similar and with the same low, sporty profile, like the 4S
     
  8. OHWHATDA

    OHWHATDA Member

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    I agree that it sounds like InnoDrive is kind of a waste, but the base Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) sounds like it would be pretty useful if you regularly drive in traffic. I think everyone agrees that Porsche is for people who love driving, but at the same time, if you live in LA like I do, being stuck in stop and go traffic for 40 minutes isn't exactly fun. Auto Pilot type systems are great for those scenarios where you're going 5 mph, andI wouldn't mind if my car could drive itself for all those times when I'm crawling along the 210.
     
  9. TheSnape

    TheSnape Well-Known Member

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    Also, wow, that interior looks amazing.

    Especially in those options, fits well with the exterior of the best looking four door car ever made
     
  10. dennis

    dennis Active Member

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    Performance-wise the 4S is comparable to the Model S Long Range which has a 0-60 time of 3.7 seconds, a tick faster than the 4S. It also has an EPA range of 370 miles. For a price of $80,000 with the only extra cost options being paint and interior colors and full self driving (base autopilot included). Much as with the Turbo vs. Model S Performance you are going to have to justify at least a 50% price premium if you want the Taycan.
     
  11. felixtb

    felixtb Well-Known Member

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    i LOVE Tesla! However, every time i see these direct comparisons i get confused.......... I find this direct comparison of straight line performance and price point really bizarre..... you would not do that comparison on the ICE side. People like us, buy Porsches and what nots over other premium and not brands not because performance per buck is better but merely because we believe that the sports car brands that we consider and purchase have something else more than the other brands and so we pay a premium, and we are ok with that otherwise you could never consider buying a premium sports car brand. There are just too many much less expensive options out there with similar or better straight line, and sometimes even total performance, to even consider the brands we buy. So again I LOVE TESLA! but I do not consider them direct rivals when i look to buy the likes of a Porsche. Because if I did I could never buy a Porsche.
     
  12. TheSnape

    TheSnape Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, brand name does make a huge difference.

    That said, the only car that embodies what a Porsche is more than the Taycan is the 911. The Taycan literally defines a Porsche - only car that does this more is 911.
     
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  13. felixtb

    felixtb Well-Known Member

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    Yes it does but it’s not the name in itself it’s all that it embodies, all the history and all that they have accomplished that is somehow transferred into every car that come off their lines.

    Henry Catchpole was saying that it has very little in the form of that true 911 spirit... he however, hails all the 911s even late model ones..... and these exact same comments were given by the old school boys at the time the 911 got its first subframe to try to make it more of an everyman’s road car back in the late 1980s. So if that is one of the only complaint, that Porsche has just gotten even better at making cars than the previous models then I’m very happy. :)
     
  14. TESLABOY

    TESLABOY New Member

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    Autopilot coming, LIDAR from audi on Taycan!

    IMG_0822.JPG

    IMG_0826.JPG
     
  15. dennis

    dennis Active Member

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    I was responding to @KensingtonPark who said "But you can get a 4S for ~$140K that is superior in many of the same ways to the Tesla Model S. Now that will make someone looking at a Model S say "hmm."". The fact is that relatively few buyers who are considering an $80,000 car are potential buyers of a $140,000 car. And I know the value of a Porsche; otherwise I wouldn't have spent $135K for a Cayenne S.
     

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