Range

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by Rotordude, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. Rotordude

    Rotordude Well-Known Member

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    So hear me out.....

    I’m extremely disappointed in the Porsche quoted range of 450km on the “Turbo” (WLTP). For an engineering based company with 70 plus years of experience, given they had Tesla model S’s beside them while testing the Taycans, how can they NOT achieve 600km or better range. Let’s be honest, 600km(EPA) is the EV benchmark with Tesla’s latest S.

    Tesla has been engineering for, say 8-10 years.

    Porsche engineers did a great job with Taycan track performance....26 times accelerating up and down the runway. Record breaking 7:42 circuit!

    If the Taycan is solely an EV track car, they’ve hit it out of the park.

    If they want to enter the EV production consumer market, they’ve missed. Who’s gonna pay for the billion dollar EV factory/ investment......all those race car track drivers? I shudder to think what a base model, 4, 4S with an 80kwH battery range would be?

    Waiting for those EPA ratings to come out (supposedly they’re 15-20% less than WLTP).
     
  2. Friedrich

    Friedrich Well-Known Member

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    Actually the 4S will not have the powerful motor, so I expect the range on the 4S, which will also have the 93kwH battery, according to earlier articles, to be greater than the high performance motors of the Turbo and Turbo S. I agree the base model Taycan will be a laughable. I also made fun of any Porsche owner that has the base models of a Porsche (except for the Carrera), as Porsche owner wannabe's, and other posters on this forum called me an elitist....LOL

    Tesla designed the original S for long range. Porsche designed the battery and temperature management system for Taycan for SUSTAINED performance. Both are really great cars with different purposes.

    Yes, someday Tesla will improve its interior, steering, suspension etc. The Roadster 2 will blow everyone away!!!!! And hopefully the Y will benefit from some of the engineering, and eventually a revamped S

    And anyone that has kept up with this forum, know that Porsche may already have new batteries as early as 2021

    I have always had a Porsche since 1989, and can literally count the number of times I have driven over 250 miles in one day in a Porsche. Yes it would be nice to have more range, but having a REAL sports sedan and has REAL prestige is far more important to me.
     
  3. Dee

    Dee Well-Known Member

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    Who really does 600km per day at one go?
    Most people don't do 600km/day, really.
    It's from the ICE-era:
    You go to the petrol station and fill up, then you check how many miles you drove (or before of course).
    You don't want to go to the petrol station every single day, right?
    There's your habbit.
    Just switch thinking: how many miles do you NEED most of the time?
    600km?
    No.
    You have a full tank.
    Every.
    Single.
    Day.
    ...
    There you go.
     
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  4. MissionC

    MissionC Active Member

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    Having spent zero time behind the wheel of an EV, I’m curious as to what impact Porsche’s regenerative braking setup will have on power generation. I see a lot of hand-wringing over the range, but in everyday, non-highway driving conditions, will the regenerative braking deliver any meaningful energy recuperation back into the Taycan’s batteries and change the range calculation?
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Rotordude

    Rotordude Well-Known Member

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    For me..average
    90k work
    40k gym/social
    30k just driving to enjoy my car.....country roads and highway.
     
  6. Dee

    Dee Well-Known Member

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    Yes, defenately.
    City driving will give you about 6-10kWh/100km, between cities, non-highway about 3kWh/100km.
    My average driving is 17-20kWh/100km.
    Highway about 24-30kWh/100km, also cuz of absence of regeneration.
    BMW i3, which is very efficient (due to low weight, 1170kg).
    A Taycan is very heavy so it uses more but, also due to weight (kinetic energy), more regeneration.

    Best efficient speed is below 80km/h as wind resistance becomes more of a big factor.
     
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  7. xy911jk

    xy911jk Member

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    Supporting Dee’s comments above, there is a “Range” tab on the Taycan page of Porsche.com (at least on the european versions... I did not find the same tool on the USA site): you can get different estimates based on your journey profile (and also on other factors, including the type of wheels chosen).
     
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  8. Friedrich

    Friedrich Well-Known Member

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    Rotordude,
    You are suffering from range anxiety........Even if you add your numbers up, that's only a 160 km....even a Chevy Bolt or Nissan Leaf have good enough range for you. Also, most people with range anxiety way over estimate their day driving. With your numbers, you would be driving 58,400 km per year (36,500 miles ), and I am guessing that is probably more than 2.5 times what you actually are driving. The typical American drives about 22400km per year (14000 miles per year). According to the Canadian Office of Energy Resources, the average mileage per year in Canada is about 15,200 kilometres.

    In wife's ICE Porsche, we fill it with gas approximately once per month, as she and I only drive it around 6400km per year ( 4000 miles per year) Then, If I am plugging in our EV once per week, it will be fine. My ICE SUV, i put gas in once per week. When I replace the SUV, most likely with the Tesla Model Y, or Porsche EV Macan when they come out, I will plug it in every night, so I always have a 80%-100% charge. The average Porsche owner drives his vehicle 6800 km per year (4360 miles), according to autoblog article.
    https://www.autoblog.com/photos/photos-cars-that-owners-drive-the-least/#slide-1280622

    Some people on this forum are having typical range anxiety....For those, I do not recommend they buy an electric vehicle until EVs are more mainstream.

    The best selling Tesla, the Model 3 RWD, gets 432 km range (270 mile range)
    The second best selling EV in the US and 4rth best selling in Europe, the Nissan Leaf gets 360km range (225 mile range) My brother in law uses one for his daily work commute now for 5 years and has a 208 km range (130 mile range)
    The best selling European EV, the Renault Zoe, has a range of 210 km ( about 130 miles)
     
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  9. OP
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    Rotordude

    Rotordude Well-Known Member

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    The Canadian Tesla website, Model S gives an epa range of 600km.....thats an EV benchmark....like it or not.

    Maybe one can call it range anxiety. I prefer to think I’m damn demanding when it comes to engineering, Porsche’s, my own skill set. “No compromises” per their own marketing.

    BTW, I’m an above average Porsche guy.....based on your data;)
     
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  10. felixtb

    felixtb Well-Known Member

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    The problem with BEVs is that the numbers given by the EPA or WLTP standards are in ideal conditions and hypermiling to a certain extent so the real world numbers are different for a person whom likes to drive sports cars as sports cars...…. In here lies the disparity from person to person. Some think hypermiling is great and then there is never range anxiety. and others do not like hypermiling and they can quite easily get range anxiety because it is harder to find fill up stations for a BEV than an ICE...…. at least in the beginning of the BEV experience. I hate hypermiling so I quickly try understand the real world range under my most generally encountered conditions as I get used to a new BEV. When you have the numbers well ingrained you can always adjust either driving to available fill-up stations or find adequate amount of fill-up stations on your route WITH THE REQUIRED CHARGE CAPACITY to minimize down time on the specific route. This way you can have just as fun and not suffer from range anxiety on the actual route. SO be well prepared on a new route. My two cents on range anxiety. :)
     
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  11. Friedrich

    Friedrich Well-Known Member

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    And I hope all Teslas will soon have that range....but you are pointing out the long distance range Model 3, which VERY few are actually sold. The OVERWHELMING majority of Teslas is the RWD Model 3 with a range of 430 km (270 miles). Why, because that is the practical everyday range that easily covers virtually every drive. You yourself say you only drive 160 km per day, which I don't think is accurate, as you actually would mean you drive 58,000 km (36,000 miles) per year, or four times the average Canadian and 6 times the amount of the average Porsche driver Your anxiety is most in your mind, not in reality.

    I get it if you want to take a ride in the beautiful Canadian rockies, I don't think I could drive a Tesla (which I also plan on buying as well) nor the Taycan in the mountain routes I want in the Appalachian mountains the way I like to drive an ICE, running steep switchback mountain roads very fast.

    Unquestionably, there is lots of room for improvement. Tesla has accomplished long range, Porsche has accomplished sustained perfomance (which is by far the most important for most Porsche owners). Hopefully each manufacturer will improve on their weakness....and I hopefully I will be a loyal Tesla and loyal Porsche buyer for many years to come!! (like Felix....btw Felix, my father is from Basel)
     
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  12. OP
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    Rotordude

    Rotordude Well-Known Member

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    F890FB32-2137-42A1-9AF1-1F5B43DE21BC.png
     
  13. charliemathilde

    charliemathilde Well-Known Member

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    My ICE car has a range of ... 200mi. Filling it up with gas once a week is a drag. My wife’s EV is basically always full in the morning. It doesn’t sound like much of a difference but it’s a real quality of life improvement.
     
  14. Dee

    Dee Well-Known Member

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    90km for work: you need 50km of range*.
    40km for gym/social: still 50km of range.
    30km for driving: also 50km of range.
    You can even have an 2013 BMW i3 with around 100km of range and never have to worry about range...

    *Charge at night and at work.
     
  15. Friedrich

    Friedrich Well-Known Member

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    Rotordude......Again.....for the third time, you are pointing out a vehicle that represents less than 5% of Tesla total sales, if even that much! The overwhelming majority of Teslas sold are the Model 3 RWD with a range of 270 miles....430km, the vehicle intended for the masses. Again....for the 3rd time, for the amount of driving YOU stated, you can buy a used 2011 Nissan Leaf that has 190km (120 mile) range for under US10,000 that will more than cover the range YOU stated you drive each day. as does my brother in law. For the Model 3, Taycan and every major EV today, you only have to charge every other day. But I think you grossly exaggerated on your daily driving, as to most people that suffer from Range Anxiety. Your anxiety is only psychological.......

    Yes, it would be nicer if Porsche produced a more efficient battery, inverter and electric motor, hence longer range. Yes, it would be nice if Tesla made a vehicle that could be driven like a sports car for extended periods, and improved steering, suspension and stability, and actually have a luxury interior for a $130,000 car AND revamp a car that has been around now for 7 years. (The new Camry is more modern than the Model S) . And YES, I am sure both manufacturers are working on it. Hopefully some will come out with the Model Y which will be my everyday commuter work vehicle when it comes out.
     
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