Taycan real world Range

[felixtb]

WOW this thread is becoming mega inflamed! Calm down guys.......... It’s only a car.

Initially I only revived this thread to point to some to me, encouraging numbers. Really getting 285-300km on a full battery in the real world of sporty driving is GOOD not bad at all. And that’s why I said it was similar numbers to my initial P85DL because i drove that as a fun car and then you cannot expect more from a BEV in this day and age. Unless they come in with Cw numbers even lower than the Model 3......

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[edouard356]

Man, I have to agree with you I'm sitting here wondering how all of this back-and-forth makes any sense at this point. The exact range numbers for the Taycan cannot be fully debated at this point, as we don't know the exact range. Remember, guys, this is a digital image of the interior, no different than the image on a configurator.

How can I tell this is a digital image? Several things are wrong in the image. If you look at the call log screen, some of the calls occur in the year 2020. Unless someone traveled in time, not possible. In the climate control shot, both the heated and cooling functions are on for the seats (not mechanically likely).

Anyway, I don't believe those are real range numbers in this image. At the end of the day, people have their preferences, but debating a range without final facts just seem futile. Let's get back to some fun discussions and get ready for this great car that is about to be unveiled

WOW this thread is becoming mega inflamed! Calm down guys.......... It’s only a car.

Initially I only revived this thread to point to some to me, encouraging numbers. Really getting 285-300km on a full battery in the real world of sporty driving is GOOD not bad at all. And that’s why I said it was similar numbers to my initial P85DL because i drove that as a fun car and then you cannot expect more from a BEV in this day and age. Unless they come in with Cw numbers even lower than the Model 3......

 

[gwestr]

Listen, nobody is buying a $120k Taycan to baby the accelerator. If you want 310 miles of range, get a $40k Tesla and drive like it’s a Prius. You’ll be lucky to get 200 miles out of the Taycan driving it as intended, and that’s probably OK.

 

[DrParis]

I frequent the Tesla site for information and all the bickering and rude comments. Last month there was a large stir up with those who own older Model S cars. Many reported that over night after a update they lost 20% of their battery capacity. Some conspiracy fans were speculating that the reduction was done on purpose to entice owners of older Model S’s to upgrade and buy a newer unit. Many unhappy original owners....

I had that problem too, until I started wearing my tin foil hat full time.

 

[Scott Allen]

The interior looks great and I hope the exterior is as spectacular. I like Tesla's cars and Tesla has done an incredible job of establishing EV's as a viable alternative.

But I don't care what specs any Tesla vehicle comes with.

I want a Porsche! Not a Tesla, Not an Audi. Not a Jaguar.

A Porsche!

 

[charliemathilde]

So your point is that Tesla can go further on a given battery capacity than Porsche? Without knowing the range details on Porsche, that may be true. Is this why you are saying Tesla is so much further along EV tech-wise than Porsche?

There are many things that go into the cars range.


"Tesla killer" is a phrase trumped up by the media in order to get website hits. Porsche (and the German automobile industry) don't view things that way. I don't recall Porsche ever using the term "Tesla killer".

As I mentioned, many things go into a car's range. Porsche has a fantastic racing history and tend to over engineer many aspects of their vehicles to allow them to perform in a grueling racing environment. This is shown by the level of testing the Taycan has undergone. This approach to engineering is something Compare this to Tesla. I can think of at least one case recently where they had to bump down the range of the Model S via a software upgrade in order to improve battery longevity. You can contrast this with Audi's range on the e-tron. As someone else mentioned here, the fact that the e-tron is much more conventional looking SUV with it's higher drag coefficient probably comes into play. Also, the Audi e-tron is only using 88% of the battery capacity. This conservative approach was done to preserve battery health and longevity. An Audi spokesperson said it well, "We took a different approach than our competitors that balances range with longevity and repeatability”.

Personally, as an engineer I'm always in favor of the conservative approach to solving a problem, but I realize others are fine with more risk. IMO, we are at the very start of the switch from ICE to EV technology for personal transportation so there's much learning to be done.

i, and I suspect dennis and others, have been trying to inject some realism into the range discussion. We already know the size, configuration, chemistry and manufacture of the batteries. We know how they perform in the real world in other products. Considerably worse than Tesla’s. If you’re hoping for a long range car, there’s no indication that the Taycan 2020 will be for you. Everybody here is crazy excited for this car. But it’s v1.0 from Porsche. Tesla started in 2008. That’s a huge head start and it’ll take a while for Porsche to catch up. The Rimac investment is extremely tantalizing for future platforms. Which won’t be the J1.

The taycan isn’t going to outperform the model S on every possible metric. And for a lot of people, that’s okay.

 

[AlphaG]

i, and I suspect dennis and others, have been trying to inject some realism into the range discussion. We already know the size, configuration, chemistry and manufacture of the batteries. We know how they perform in the real world in other products. Considerably worse than Tesla’s. If you’re hoping for a long range car, there’s no indication that the Taycan 2020 will be for you. Everybody here is crazy excited for this car. But it’s v1.0 from Porsche. Tesla started in 2008. That’s a huge head start and it’ll take a while for Porsche to catch up. The Rimac investment is extremely tantalizing for future platforms. Which won’t be the J1.

The taycan isn’t going to outperform the model S on every possible metric. And for a lot of people, that’s okay.

The problem, honestly, is that you make sweeping statements without knowing for sure what the actual truth is. This is what my problem is with your so-called realism. I am not trying to be inflammatory, honestly.

Porsche is not 9 years behind Tesla. They are using a battery tech that is not less advanced, but a choice in engineering. Rimac uses pouch cells I believe for what it’s worth. If I were to guess, I suspect the Porsche would have similar Range as the Model S P100D, but that is purely conjecture. The range will certainly be good enough for me.

 

[charliemathilde]

The problem, honestly, is that you make sweeping statements without knowing for sure what the actual truth is. This is what my problem is with your so-called realism. I am not trying to be inflammatory, honestly.

Porsche is not 9 years behind Tesla. They are using a battery tech that is not less advanced, but a choice in engineering. Rimac uses pouch cells I believe for what it’s worth. If I were to guess, I suspect the Porsche would have similar Range as the Model S P100D, but that is purely conjecture. The range will certainly be good enough for me.

Porsche has said 500km NEDC, which works out to be ~210mi EPA.

https://thedriven.io/2019/08/07/why-are-new-electric-vehicle-range-estimates-often-so-different/

I suspect they’ll do better than that, but it’s not going to be similar to the Model S P100. Porsche’s own statements, known engineering about their LG Chem sourced batteries .. i’m just full of sweeping fact free analysis ...

 

[Friedrich]

Porsche has said 500km NEDC, which works out to be ~210mi EPA.

https://thedriven.io/2019/08/07/why-are-new-electric-vehicle-range-estimates-often-so-different/

I suspect they’ll do better than that, but it’s not going to be similar to the Model S P100. Porsche’s own statements, known engineering about their LG Chem sourced batteries .. i’m just full of sweeping fact free analysis ...

Again.....I am a BIG Tesla Fan MAN, and plan on buying the Tesla Y as my everyday car. Comparing the range of the Tesla and Taycan is like comparing the gas mileage of a Lexus LS460 with Honda Accord....its just makes NO sense and kind of misses the point of each car!

Having said that, more importantly it is absolutely silly to discuss the range of the Taycan intelligently, that is, based on facts before September 4. You dont even know the range, but if really long range is an issue, DONT buy a Porsche as your primary car. Sustained performance and REAL handling is what a sports car driver is looking for. People interested in buying a Taycan are interested in a SPORTS sedan with buyers coming from former or potential Mercedes E and S class AMG sedans, BMW 6 and 7 series, Audi 5, 6 & 7 Series, Lexus LS 460 etc, But NOT the car initially marketed as the electric car for the masses. The PRIMARY concern of the Porsche owner is the performance and handling, and with an electric Porsche, the SUSTAINED ability to perform. From the beginning, Porsche said they want a car that drives like a Porsche and CAN continue to drive like a Porsche. Porsche's design, if you read CEO Oliver Blume's April interview, is on sustained performance, which is accomplished in great part with a superior design for temperature management of the batteries. Tesla still lacks in that area of temperature management, as Porsche may or may not lack in range. On some initial runs on the Nürburgring, the S model literally shut down its performance ability because of battery temperature issues. But maybe Porsche should use Japanese batteries like Tesla rather than Korean batteries Porsche is using....lol

Now some real (sustained) performance testing (not just speculation from a fan boi): The Taycan just did the Nürburgring in 7 minutes 42 seconds. The Tesla S did it in 8:50 and the Tesla 3 in 9:00 In contrast, a VW Lupo, which like a smaller Gold, had a 1.4 gas motor, did it in 9:10...lol So on a sustained level, the Tesla performs equal to a the crapiest or should I say most basic gas engine car produced in Europe. The Model 3 used 30% of its battery in one lap of the race track. And lets see what the Tesla acceleration is after 30 consecutive starts?

Again, I love the Tesla, and look forward to being Tesla owner, and love the bragging rights of acceleration, but as a REAL sports car, I am expecting the Taycan to literally run a big (Nürburgring) circle around the Tesla. And granted, the Tesla will be ahead in the first few seconds of the race.

 

[charliemathilde]

Having said that, more importantly it is absolutely silly to discuss the range of the Taycan intelligently, that is, based on facts before September 4. You dont even know the range, but if really long range is an issue, DONT buy a Porsche as your primary car. Sustained performance and REAL handling is what a sports car driver is looking for.

as best I can tell the only thing we’re disagreeing about is whether or not enough engineering details and sourced Porsche statements have leaked to make reasonable estimates of the taycan’s likely range... the answer is yes but we’ll know soon enough.

 

[AlphaG]

Now I’m not saying that the Taycan will have the same range as an M3, but Bjorn Nyland figures it will do about the same as the M3 in calculations based on his M3 long distance effort over 24 hours compared to the Taycan’s run at the Nardo ring:

 

[gwestr]

That ‘Ring lap definitely used over 30% of the battery. I’m saying you can only do 2-3 of them.

 

[dennis]

The Taycan just did the Nürburgring in 7 minutes 42 seconds. The Tesla S did it in 8:50 and the Tesla 3 in 9:00

Just for the record, the Taycan lap was done in a private session with a professional test driver. The Model 3 lap was done in a public session with an owner driving the car. How many deposit holders here think they can turn a 7:42 in their Taycan?

 

[soly20]

That ‘Ring lap definitely used over 30% of the battery. I’m saying you can only do 2-3 of them.

How did you come up with this information? Or is it just wishful thinking? Maybe it used 15% or maybe it used 50%.

 

[domin1720]

I know I can't. I'm a visual guy, don't care if Taycan is even a bit slower. I want a good exterior, to me Tesla is as basic as it gets and looks like it's going to Cracker Barrel. If Taycan isn't different and sharp I'll wait until someone gets it right.

Just for the record, the Taycan lap was done in a private session with a professional test driver. The Model 3 lap was done in a public session with an owner driving the car. How many deposit holders here think they can turn a 7:42 in their Taycan?

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