SHN
Well-Known Member
- First Name
- Svein Halvard
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2019
- Threads
- 9
- Messages
- 168
- Reaction score
- 150
- Location
- Norway
- Vehicles
- Porsche Taycan 4S+, Tesla Model S (for sale)
- Thread starter
- #1
As many on the forum are, I’m also disappointed on the price and specs on the Turbo and Turbo S, but if digging further into the numbers, it may not be so bad after all.
Porsche has stated that the Taycan was build for performance and not range, that’s true for Turbo and Turbo S, right? Will the base version be built for performance?
If we look at the numbers, you will see there are small changes that Porsche needs to do to make the base version “range friendly”. The key factors for better range economy are wind resistance, rolling resistance, engine and battery efficiency and climate control.
Wind resistance
Turbo has less wind resistance (better drag coefficient) than Turbo S. The reason as I understand, is that you can close the vents for cooling down the brakes. For daily use as I expect most people who has signed up for Taycan will be doing, there’s no need for the vents to be open. The drag coefficient for Turbo is 0.22, and it is quite good. It’s better than Tesla Model S (0.23) and Model 3 (0.23). With some tweaks, Porsche might be able to lower it on the base version, maybe to 0.21. Many on the forum compares the specs with eTron and iPace. Those have horrible drag coeffients, 0.28 for former and 0.29 for iPace.
Rolling resistance
This is probably the most under valued factor. The Turbo has 20” wheels and narrower tires than Turbo S, which gives Turbo less rolling resistance. By giving the base version even narrower tires on 19” like standard Model S, it will lower the rolling resistance even more. The tires compound on the Turbo and Turbo S are build for performance. By changing to tires build for range, you will get less resistance and better range.
Weight may also be a factor for the rolling resistance, but not so much when you keep the speed and don’t break, accelerate or have lots of sharp turns and hills.
If the base version comes with lower battery range than the Turbo and Turbo S, it should also drop some weight. It is also said that the base version will have only a Rear Wheel drive, and I guess it will not have 2 speed gear box since it will not be needed for daily use. That means you will skip more weight, and also gain lower rolling resistance (and larger Front Trunk).
I will also mention that right tire pressure will influence the rolling resistance, but I will not go into weather and drive condition, which will be the same for any cars with the same specs.
Engine and battery efficiency
I’m not into this in details, but AFAIK Tesla has more efficient engine and battery tech than Taycan, but if you compare it with eTron, I assume it should be better.
Climate Control
Taycan has option for a heat pump which will help when it’s cold. However, my experience shows that you gain lot by pre-heating and heating during charging.
My experience with EVs
I had a 1stgen eGolf (2014-2016) and I have a Tesla Model S 90D (2016-). For City driving it will be no problem with Taycan. Porsche has showed that Turbo S will have no problem at tracks too. The worries that I have read on the forum is range. I’m not worried.
The 1st. gen eGolf was a city car, but I drove it around in Norway and also to Germany through Sweden and Denmark on vacation. The Tesla I have driven to North of Norway and to Italy (Sardinia).
10% of the cars in Norway are BEVs. Norwegian are not worried about range. We were worried before, but after gaining experience we are not anymore. What worries Norwegians (lots of new EV-owners) are charging queues. Particularly, non-Tesla chargers. The pace of building enough charging stations is to slow to fully cover the rush hours during weekends and holidays. To me (with a Tesla) it’s not a problem.
My parents are getting old, so I frequently visiting them during weekend and holidays. They are living approximately 400 km away from me and it takes from 5 hours up to 6,5 hours depending on weather and driving conditions, roadworks and queues. During good conditions I can drive the Tesla fully charged non-stop and still have above 20% left on the battery. However, under bad winter conditions I have to have one 15-20 min. charging stop, but that don’t bother me. I normally need a break anyway.
I have several routes to choose from. The main route is basically a highway 2/3 of the route, but it’s 30 km longer than the shortest route which is basically country road all the way. Because of the main route is longer and the speed limit on the highway is 90 - 110 kmph it consumes more battery. Which route I choose, depends on weather and drive conditions, road work and queues. When you get the experience of EV, this sort of things will be routines and won’t bother you. You will be more anxious in the beginning and be planning a lot, but then you get the experience and it’s no worries.
Thoughts
I think that Porsche can make the base version more align to the expectation that most of the reservation holders had to range, but it will be second to Tesla. It’s a Porsche and it comes with a price tag. I haven’t decided yet if I will swap my Tesla for a Taycan. I think it’s worth waiting for the specs on 4S and the base version. I think Porsche will be able to make the base version a bargain if they will, and then be a hit. The reveal of the specs on 4S will give us a clue, and next year we will find out. By then Porsche will have gained some experience and made improvements.
Porsche has stated that the Taycan was build for performance and not range, that’s true for Turbo and Turbo S, right? Will the base version be built for performance?
If we look at the numbers, you will see there are small changes that Porsche needs to do to make the base version “range friendly”. The key factors for better range economy are wind resistance, rolling resistance, engine and battery efficiency and climate control.
Wind resistance
Turbo has less wind resistance (better drag coefficient) than Turbo S. The reason as I understand, is that you can close the vents for cooling down the brakes. For daily use as I expect most people who has signed up for Taycan will be doing, there’s no need for the vents to be open. The drag coefficient for Turbo is 0.22, and it is quite good. It’s better than Tesla Model S (0.23) and Model 3 (0.23). With some tweaks, Porsche might be able to lower it on the base version, maybe to 0.21. Many on the forum compares the specs with eTron and iPace. Those have horrible drag coeffients, 0.28 for former and 0.29 for iPace.
Rolling resistance
This is probably the most under valued factor. The Turbo has 20” wheels and narrower tires than Turbo S, which gives Turbo less rolling resistance. By giving the base version even narrower tires on 19” like standard Model S, it will lower the rolling resistance even more. The tires compound on the Turbo and Turbo S are build for performance. By changing to tires build for range, you will get less resistance and better range.
Weight may also be a factor for the rolling resistance, but not so much when you keep the speed and don’t break, accelerate or have lots of sharp turns and hills.
If the base version comes with lower battery range than the Turbo and Turbo S, it should also drop some weight. It is also said that the base version will have only a Rear Wheel drive, and I guess it will not have 2 speed gear box since it will not be needed for daily use. That means you will skip more weight, and also gain lower rolling resistance (and larger Front Trunk).
I will also mention that right tire pressure will influence the rolling resistance, but I will not go into weather and drive condition, which will be the same for any cars with the same specs.
Engine and battery efficiency
I’m not into this in details, but AFAIK Tesla has more efficient engine and battery tech than Taycan, but if you compare it with eTron, I assume it should be better.
Climate Control
Taycan has option for a heat pump which will help when it’s cold. However, my experience shows that you gain lot by pre-heating and heating during charging.
My experience with EVs
I had a 1stgen eGolf (2014-2016) and I have a Tesla Model S 90D (2016-). For City driving it will be no problem with Taycan. Porsche has showed that Turbo S will have no problem at tracks too. The worries that I have read on the forum is range. I’m not worried.
The 1st. gen eGolf was a city car, but I drove it around in Norway and also to Germany through Sweden and Denmark on vacation. The Tesla I have driven to North of Norway and to Italy (Sardinia).
10% of the cars in Norway are BEVs. Norwegian are not worried about range. We were worried before, but after gaining experience we are not anymore. What worries Norwegians (lots of new EV-owners) are charging queues. Particularly, non-Tesla chargers. The pace of building enough charging stations is to slow to fully cover the rush hours during weekends and holidays. To me (with a Tesla) it’s not a problem.
My parents are getting old, so I frequently visiting them during weekend and holidays. They are living approximately 400 km away from me and it takes from 5 hours up to 6,5 hours depending on weather and driving conditions, roadworks and queues. During good conditions I can drive the Tesla fully charged non-stop and still have above 20% left on the battery. However, under bad winter conditions I have to have one 15-20 min. charging stop, but that don’t bother me. I normally need a break anyway.
I have several routes to choose from. The main route is basically a highway 2/3 of the route, but it’s 30 km longer than the shortest route which is basically country road all the way. Because of the main route is longer and the speed limit on the highway is 90 - 110 kmph it consumes more battery. Which route I choose, depends on weather and drive conditions, road work and queues. When you get the experience of EV, this sort of things will be routines and won’t bother you. You will be more anxious in the beginning and be planning a lot, but then you get the experience and it’s no worries.
Thoughts
I think that Porsche can make the base version more align to the expectation that most of the reservation holders had to range, but it will be second to Tesla. It’s a Porsche and it comes with a price tag. I haven’t decided yet if I will swap my Tesla for a Taycan. I think it’s worth waiting for the specs on 4S and the base version. I think Porsche will be able to make the base version a bargain if they will, and then be a hit. The reveal of the specs on 4S will give us a clue, and next year we will find out. By then Porsche will have gained some experience and made improvements.
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