Red Ring of Death out of bumper to bumper warranty

[Ironman273]

I have a 2020 Taycan 4S that's out of regular warranty but still within the extended battery warranty. So I got the red ring of death and had the car towed to the dealership. They told me 3 modules were bad and they had to wait for the part. A month later and I get a message from the dealership that they "Found 12V battery internally faulty, fault code P1B0200 - 12V battery monitoring - no function" present on pre-val. Deactivate/reactivate HV system and replace 12V battery" - $3,564.28. How is this not covered under the warranty?

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[W1NGE]

I have a 2020 Taycan 4S that's out of regular warranty but still within the extended battery warranty. So I got the red ring of death and had the car towed to the dealership. They told me 3 modules were bad and they had to wait for the part. A month later and I get a message from the dealership that they "Found 12V battery internally faulty, fault code P1B0200 - 12V battery monitoring - no function" present on pre-val. Deactivate/reactivate HV system and replace 12V battery" - $3,564.28. How is this not covered under the warranty?

Warranty is for HV battery only. You need the OPC warranty for everything else.

 

[Ironman273]

So this is on top of the HV cells that were defective?

 

[SergeyIndy]

I would argue 12V locked itself out as it ran out of HV battery feed. 12V depends on HV to stay alive. The key word is "a month later", so 12V was fully charged and operational when you got red circle and should have been put on a maintainer, but since they did not do that, then it got really low on voltage and locked itself out by the time the parts arrived. The dealer should have known this. 12V does not go bad on its own and lasts a long time, certainly much more than 6 years. Mine locked out on a 2020 Cayenne twice and needed to be replaced with the cost of around $2k, while being perfectly good.

 

[fsolis]

I have a 2020 Taycan 4S as well, and my car started randomly shutting down at highway speeds in the highway. It’s a CPO, and the dealer replaced both the front and rear electronics. They also replaced the 12V battery because it didn’t meet Porsche’s testing thresholds. Porsche North America covered it as a goodwill repair since the issues started just a month after I bought the car.

I’m not new to EVs, (owned 4 Teslas before) so I’m surprised the Taycan’s 12V LiPo battery is failing after only six years. That’s only about half of its expected lifespan. It really makes me wonder if there’s a defect with the battery itself or if the battery management system (BMS) isn’t protecting it well enough.

and by the way, the price for the 12v battery is just insane in Porsches, the whole idea of an EV is almost no maintenance and low cost to maintain due to electronics.

 

[69Mach390]

I would argue 12V locked itself out as it ran out of HV battery feed. 12V depends on HV to stay alive. The key word is "a month later", so 12V was fully charged and operational when you got red circle and should have been put on a maintainer, but since they did not do that, then it got really low on voltage and locked itself out by the time the parts arrived. The dealer should have known this. 12V does not go bad on its own and lasts a long time, certainly much more than 6 years. Mine locked out on a 2020 Cayenne twice and needed to be replaced with the cost of around $2k, while being perfectly good.

I see what you’re saying, but it’s likely fruitless. You would have a hard time proving the dealer killed a 6-7 year old 12v in a month.

Doesn’t matter why the 12v died, it isn’t covered under any circumstances out of warranty unfortunately.

 

[Ironman273]

This might be an extreme example, but if you have your car in for service and they crash it, you would expect them to take care of it since it happened on their watch. Wouldn't it be a similar scenario if they allowed the battery to drain to a level that requires almost $4,000 in work? When the car first went in, the advisor told me they saw what the issue was (the HV battery) but they had to wait for parts. Wouldn't they have seen the problem with the 12V battery at that point, not a month later?

 

[SergeyIndy]

This might be an extreme example, but if you have your car in for service and they crash it, you would expect them to take care of it since it happened on their watch. Wouldn't it be a similar scenario if they allowed the battery to drain to a level that requires almost $4,000 in work? When the car first went in, the advisor told me they saw what the issue was (the HV battery) but they had to wait for parts. Wouldn't they have seen the problem with the 12V battery at that point, not a month later?

No. I believe your 12V was perfectly fine when you dropped the car off for HV issue with Red Circle. However, since the car was sitting for a month and having no feed to keep 12V battery alive, 12V gets to low volt and locks up becoming dead. Therefore, I would press for this to be covered by the dealer or good will.

Yes, 12V is not covered after factory warranty expires. Also, this is a lesson, although my belief 100% dealer's fault, to always have your Taycan under factory or extended warranty up to 8 years or 100k miles that costs in a $7k-$8k range one time cost.

 

[babylou66]

In this case the stealership will profit due to their negligence. This is why I strongly prefer the direct sales model started by Tesla.

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

This might be an extreme example, but if you have your car in for service and they crash it, you would expect them to take care of it since it happened on their watch. Wouldn't it be a similar scenario if they allowed the battery to drain to a level that requires almost $4,000 in work? When the car first went in, the advisor told me they saw what the issue was (the HV battery) but they had to wait for parts. Wouldn't they have seen the problem with the 12V battery at that point, not a month later?

I actually had that experience with my Panamera. The dealer offers a 'car delivery' service where they will drive your car to you after repairs. The kid driving my car back to me after service crashed, and it was all on me to take care of it. That's one of the many things you're signing when they hand you the multiple pages to approve when you bring in your car.

 

[69Mach390]

This might be an extreme example, but if you have your car in for service and they crash it, you would expect them to take care of it since it happened on their watch. Wouldn't it be a similar scenario if they allowed the battery to drain to a level that requires almost $4,000 in work? When the car first went in, the advisor told me they saw what the issue was (the HV battery) but they had to wait for parts. Wouldn't they have seen the problem with the 12V battery at that point, not a month later?

Yes, they would fix it.

But it would be an insurance claim not a warranty claim.

You will be hard pressed to fight for an insurance claim for a 12v battery dying after 6-7 years.

You are also assuming that it was dealer negligence that killed your battery. Almost impossible to prove unless there is some shop guide or procedure that shows they should have put the car on a trickle charger in this situation and they didn’t “follow protocol.”

You can try to fight for it, just know that it would be getting a special exception, not something that’s normally covered.

 

[69Mach390]

In this case the stealership will profit due to their negligence. This is why I strongly prefer the direct sales model started by Tesla.

Why, so you just have a different group that can be negligent?

Direct sales doesn’t necessarily equate to better service. I wouldn’t mind a mix of direct and dealer models. It would be exactly like the boat industry.

In boat sales you have both. The difference-

Dealer models = cheaper boats and faster service.

Direct model = more expensive but custom boats, you may have to ship it several states away for major repairs.

 

[babylou66]

Why, so you just have a different group that can be negligent?

Direct sales doesn’t necessarily equate to better service. I wouldn’t mind a mix of direct and dealer models. It would be exactly like the boat industry.

In boat sales you have both. The difference-

Dealer models = cheaper boats and faster service.

Direct model = more expensive but custom boats, you may have to ship it several states away for major repairs.

A large and usually public traded corporation has much more to lose when they are fraudulent or negligent. A mom and pop can operate under the RADAR so to speak.

 

[Dee]

Yes, 12V is not covered after factory warranty expires.

The 12V battery is never under warranty.
Same as tires, brakes etc.

 

[69Mach390]

A large and usually public traded corporation has much more to lose when they are fraudulent or negligent. A mom and pop can operate under the RADAR so to speak.

From my experience large corporations can be quite fraudulent and local mom and pops can have a great relationship with the communities they live in. The large corporations can treat customers like a number rather than a person. But the opposite can also be true.

It’s a crap shoot either way, so I don’t mind a more free market with the ability to have both.

Another example of a market with both freely competing would be restaurants.

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