[opinion] - hmmm…VW/Audi/Porsche _IS_ in trouble… [⚠️ ADMIN WARNING: NO INSULTING / POLITICALLY CHARGED POSTING]

[69Mach390]

That must be the median income for people who buy Porsches brand new!

Most definitely.

With the price of them, I would hope so too. No one should spend their entire salary on a car.

I’m not sure what the point of the article was, but I would hope a top tier product would hire the best and brightest and pay them more to make a quality product.

The chef at a 5 star restaurant is going to make a bit more money than the fry cook at McDonald’s.

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[whitex]

’m not sure what the point of the article was, but I would hope a top tier product would hire the best and brightest and pay them more to make a quality product.

If it were only that simple. I think with Porsche it's the company culture, and sadly, the heritage of how they've always done things, subcontracting everything, taking forever to make minor tweaks. That model worked great with ICE cars which advanced technologically at glacier speeds. This is not the case with EVs, and frankly, not the case with ICE cars anymore if you consider the whole car with all of its electronics and digital integrations.

Top talent at Porsche would likely just get frustrated and leave. You could try to reform from top level, but I suspect that might not be possible either. Changes of this magnitude are usually only possible to execute by a company founder, think Gates, Musk, Jobs. None of their successors will ever have the latitude for major pivots like they've had, such successor would be fired for making too radical changes (which Porsche is in need of, from design to manufacturing). The video below is about Audi, but it gives a little insight into how traditional German carmakers operate.



Honestly, I think the best chance for Porsche is to be acquired by one of the successful, modern, agile companies, be it Tesla, BYD, or similar - someone who can move the brand into 21st century. I just hope this doesn't happen organically, i.e. Porsche goes belly up and some other company buys the brand only.

 

[TehPenguin]

Honestly, I think the best chance for Porsche is to be acquired by one of the successful, modern, agile companies, be it Tesla, BYD, or similar - someone who can move the brand into 21st century. I just hope this doesn't happen organically, Porsche goes belly up, and some other company buys the brand only.

Maybe, say, buying Rivian's tech?

 

[chun]

Maybe, say, buying Rivian's tech?

It's only for VW cars, it's unlikely Porsche will utilize it. If it does, it's for cars beyond 2030; as they just invested hundreds of milions in the android based PCMs to get away from the VW CARIAD mess.

This android effort believe it or not is headed by a 60 people software chinese team from Porsche China R&D Center in Shanghai , and it was the Chinese Taycan that was the testing platform - even though in Europe it's the last car to get this PCM, in China, it was the first.

Rivian deal is also on hold preatty much, as VW insists it works for both ICE and EV cars the same, and doing ICE with only 4 ECUs / zonal arhitecture is a whole other challenge that Rivian doesn't want to do.

So I wouldn't put my hopes up for a Porsche with Rivian software. They seem to have went the Chinese route, with their own Android based system, similar to Xiaomi, Xpeng, Zeeker and most Chinese EVs.

Porsche's problem right now is "speed", not know how - they can always import or buy know how, like they just did for this android based PCM.
They are too slow to adopt new tech, slow to innovate. It takes them 2 years for a facelift and 4 years for a brand new car. Chinese are doing these things at 4x the speed and are always on the cutting edge of tech, be it battery or software.

Like most german companies, Porsche has 10-20 layers of managment that need to be passed by any idea before it makes it into production. And that will kill them if it doesn't change.

 

[whitex]

Maybe, say, buying Rivian's tech?

No, it’s Porsche that would need to be acquired. If Porsche buys the new tech, that will not change the company culture and how they operate. They already had Rimac, not much came of it. Rimac got frustrated and left.

 

[TehPenguin]

It's only for VW cars, it's unlikely Porsche will utilize it. If it does, it's for cars beyond 2030; as they just invested hundreds of milions in the android based PCMs to get away from the VW CARIAD mess.

I thought all of VWAG was moving to Android Automotive? For example, the Q3 used Android Automotive, and the rest of the Audi line-up is moving as they get refreshes.

This android effort believe it or not is headed by a 60 people software chinese team from Porsche China R&D Center in Shanghai , and it was the Chinese Taycan that was the testing platform - even though in Europe it's the last car to get this PCM, in China, it was the first.

Citation?

Rivian deal is also on hold preatty much, as VW insists it works for both ICE and EV cars the same, and doing ICE with only 4 ECUs / zonal arhitecture is a whole other challenge that Rivian doesn't want to do.

Latest news seems to be that they're making progress. I've not seen any indication that its "on hold". How they're going to deal with ICE cars is an interesting question though...

So I wouldn't put my hopes up for a Porsche with Rivian software. They seem to have went the Chinese route, with their own Android based system, similar to Xiaomi, Xpeng, Zeeker and most Chinese EVs.

Oh, I'm not waiting for Porsche or VWAG to fix their software mess. I'll probably jump ship to AMG (I'm in the US, so Chinese cars aren't really an option).

 

[chun]

Citation?

From a quick google search



It's nothing new, they have actually done it in the past as a retro fit option for their ICE cars in China - but it was quite less capable than the "final product" that released for taycan

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2024/innovation/porsche-engineering-infotainment-system-37035.html

People are shocked that BMW & Mercedes is releasing better versions of their cars, for less money, in China, but Porsche has been doing it for a few years already also.

They key difference is that in China the decision to develop a new android based PCM didn't have to go through 20 managment layers. The decision to put an app in the PCM doesn't need to go through 20 managment layers.

 

[PorscheTaycan]

So... we buy Porsches from China and import them...

 

[gamueller]

So... we buy Porsches from China and import them...

The obvious conclusion....

 

[PorscheTaycan]

The obvious conclusion....

If Chinese production is good enough for Tesla...

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

In today's WSJ.

Porsche Deliveries Fell 16% in First Half
Deliveries fell across all markets and fell 13% in North America, the company’s largest sales region

 

[questionmillennium]

To be honest, even if Porsche didn’t increase their prices (like everyone else has), sales would still drop. People are having difficulty affording things without making sacrifices. Even those making 6 figures

 

[Tooney]

Volkswagen sales plunge as German automaker lays out plan to slash number of models

 

[Crazymind]

China has got all the cards on the table to win this hand. They have cheap labour and now technology. Both are unbeatable together. This is not about Porsche, it’s a society collapse, big as the Twin Towers.
This chapter 2020-2030 is their win. Let’s prepare the next hand.

 

[Tooney]

Volkswagen CEO says 50,000 more job cuts may be needed to close competitive gap

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