Retrofit of the J1II HV Battery into J1I vehicles

[azraeil]

Another "leak" seems to be that the Central vehicle dynamics computer (HCP1) on the new Macan EV fails and is a replacement component. That failing while you take a curve, and your suspension suddenly miss-behaves sounds like a nightmare.
I thought this was a brand new EV tested for 1mil km or something? ?

You have a sharp eye. I thought I saw the behind the main thread image something about the Macan EV CP1 thing … not sure what it refers too.

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[chun]

You have a sharp eye. I thought I saw the behind the main thread image something about the Macan EV CP1 thing … not sure what it refers too.

Likely the same HCP1; no component called just CP1 on the Macan EV

 

[chun]

The technical information document will be released on 25 Feb, so hopefully that ends up on the internet and will be fetched by the api from @rs38 https://ti-list.azurewebsites.net/

 

[Caraholic]

Well let’s hope we all get j1.2 batteries in our cars in the future.

 

[chun]

considering they have to install all cells to get 800V, they can easily flash the bcm calibrating it to use less kw like the old battery.
it's the same thing they can do limiting cars with battery recall with the next software installed, to limit power if some cells are detected not working properly

My question was more along the lines: will Porsche really pay for those 2 extra modules just to reach the right voltage, in case of warranty claim?
And if the customer pays for those 2 extra modules anyway, in case of retrofit, why not just fully enable them? It would bring bad publicity to not fully enable them, and also encourage people to tinker with the BMC, resulting in massive risks...

So to me, all scenarios in which they put those 2 modules and software lock them make no sense, at least not long term. But Porsche doesn't really think long term, so who knows.

But the voltage difference is a very valid point, so if they can't reach the same voltage and thus performance, it could result in forced buy bucks as vehicle is not as initially sold.

And if they do say: if you retrofit, you lose performance. Then who will do it? And the implications of warranty claims in that scenarios also apply, again, resulting in a under warranty product being not as initially sold.

All speculations so far, but quite a complicated topic.

 

[chun]

Since I was curious about the topic, I went back and looked at the presentation of J1 II

So even though a straightforward series connection might suggest that fewer modules equal a lower total voltage, Porsche’s engineering can—and almost certainly will—compensate for this. They can adjust the nominal voltage of each module and leverage the higher current capabilities of the new chemistry. In practice, this means that:

• The overall battery voltage will remain within the design requirements of the vehicle.
• Performance (both in terms of power delivery and energy management) will not suffer from the change in module count.

So any reduction in module count (to achieve the 93.4 kWh target with the new battery chemistry) will be implemented in such a way that it does not negatively affect the vehicle’s performance.

So case closed on that, at least for me, until actual official info is out.

EDIT: to clarify J1 I 2020 and 2021+ have the exact same chemistry, just different cell design, so specification are more or less identical

With 2 Less modules you can add as a benefit: 72kg less ?

 

[Bennachie]

What is the difference between J1.1 and J1.PA ? What is J1.PA ? obviously neither J1.1 nor J1.11.......

 

[chun]

What is the difference between J1.1 and J1.PA ? What is J1.PA ? obviously neither J1.1 nor J1.11.......

Likely internal engineering nomenclature for the j1 II facelift. But I am speculating, as they are referring to it as "J1PA/J1 II"

 

[Bennachie]

Exactly. I suspect a 'change' - but what.............

 

[Murph7355]

Would be stupid of Porsche to hamstring capacity.

In fact they should offer it as an upgrade.

Charging performance would be harder as I believe the architecture is different. So the J1 II would still have an edge. As it would with motors etc.

But offering up a sensible upgrade path would go a long way towards shoring up used values. THAT is what will encourage new buyers for J1 II or J2.

They have their head stuck in the last decade. New thinking desperately required.

I wonder how long it will take a Redshift like company to be able to free up capacity etc...

 

[vitavalka]

The range statement could also mean they cannot say it will get more range officially, as not being fully tested in real situations. But in fact the capacity will be larger and battery will be lighter and so it might bring more range indirectly. Maybe J1.2 is having more effective motor than J1, but the weight and capacity must bring some results. Just my 2c.

 

[Gino]

Received info that Porsche will be rolling this out soon. Apparently the J1I battery production has ceased so to ensure the long term supply of spare parts for the J1I, Porsche has come up with a retrofit solution using the latest J1II HV Battery.

Great news…

 

[Murph7355]

The range statement could also mean they cannot say it will get more range officially, as not being fully tested in real situations. But in fact the capacity will be larger and battery will be lighter and so it might bring more range indirectly. Maybe J1.2 is having more effective motor than J1, but the weight and capacity must bring some results. Just my 2c.

Use able battery capacity is 12%+ more on the new one. That's the biggest gain by far. Wheels and tyres are next (narrower rims, better tyres).

 

[ZenicaNC]

Wasn't the J1.1 Taycan offered with two batteries? A 79.2-kilowatt-hour battery and the 93.4 kWh battery? If Porsche just replaces all J1.1 vehicles with 93.4 kWh batteries, then those with the 79.2 kWh battery will benefit. Even if through software, they aren't granted a range or performance increase, as has been pointed out, they will likely not lose the original range value due to degradation since there is overhead not used. That overhead may also mean a higher daily charging limit.

The lower temperature limit for fast charging is a nice bonus all itself.

 

[F1Ruaraidh]

Since I was curious about the topic, I went back and looked at the presentation of J1 II

So even though a straightforward series connection might suggest that fewer modules equal a lower total voltage, Porsche’s engineering can—and almost certainly will—compensate for this. They can adjust the nominal voltage of each module and leverage the higher current capabilities of the new chemistry. In practice, this means that:

• The overall battery voltage will remain within the design requirements of the vehicle.
• Performance (both in terms of power delivery and energy management) will not suffer from the change in module count.

So any reduction in module count (to achieve the 93.4 kWh target with the new battery chemistry) will be implemented in such a way that it does not negatively affect the vehicle’s performance.

So case closed on that, at least for me, until actual official info is out.

EDIT: to clarify J1 I 2020 and 2021+ have the exact same chemistry, just different cell design, so specification are more or less identical

With 2 Less modules you can add as a benefit: 72kg less ?

Thanks for digging this out.

Replacing J1 batteries with J1 II makes perfect sense from Porsche's point of view, yes there's a cost impact but probably less than the risk of fires and managing failures for the whole J1 parc for the rest of their lives. At least this way, the cost is defined and time limited.

They can always software lock the pack BMS so that power and range are not increased over what you would have had with your J1 pack from new.

That said, they'd absolutely be missing a trick if they didn't allow a function on demand to unlock the extra range available - I know I'd pay for that.

They won't allow increased power though as that would affect drivetrain warranty but increased range would be easy.

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