New 2025 taycan lost grip - 4 wheel slide

[Pm1]

So after 4 years and 37000 miles of a 2020 taycan 4s I became tired of the reliability issues and decided to upgrade to a facelift cross turismo 4s.

My old car was on pirelli p zeros originally and I replaced a full set at the same time. I was probably naturally cautious when the car was brand new but I don't remember being cautious when I replaced the tires. That car never broke traction unless I was really provoking it to and it never did a 4 wheel slide.

In my new car, it's only got 100 miles on it, with Michelin pilot sport 4s, it also has rear wheel steering and sport chrono which my old one didn't. I was driving it relatively calmly and I went down a steep downhill with a bend at the bottom, hit a small patch of water and the car slid out on all 4 wheels, managed to get grip back before disaster struck. It just did this on a road I use daily which I have done hundreds of times more aggressively in my old car without losing grip at all.

Maybe the weather is a bit colder than when I had new tyres on my old car but both times that was in a similar time of year.

Just wondering if the tires / conditions are to blame or if the new model with rear wheel steering is actually less stable than the original. The old one was so ruthlessly grippy in all conditions that incident took me by surprise.

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[SergeyIndy]

Main reason is the tires are not broken in as they are covered in slippery mold release lubricant, so until it is worn off, you will not have full grip, then when broken in, make sure the tires are properly inflated.

I follow this procedure when new tires are on.

 

[Pm1]

I thought that just don't ever remember ever being cautious with the new pirellis. Hopefully the michelins will be similar once they've been broken in

 

[Jonathan S.]

Air temperature at the time of the slide?

 

[Pm1]

About 5C / 41F

 

[4sCT21]

So after 4 years and 37000 miles of a 2020 taycan 4s I became tired of the reliability issues and decided to upgrade to a facelift cross turismo 4s.

My old car was on pirelli p zeros originally and I replaced a full set at the same time. I was probably naturally cautious when the car was brand new but I don't remember being cautious when I replaced the tires. That car never broke traction unless I was really provoking it to and it never did a 4 wheel slide.

In my new car, it's only got 100 miles on it, with Michelin pilot sport 4s, it also has rear wheel steering and sport chrono which my old one didn't. I was driving it relatively calmly and I went down a steep downhill with a bend at the bottom, hit a small patch of water and the car slid out on all 4 wheels, managed to get grip back before disaster struck. It just did this on a road I use daily which I have done hundreds of times more aggressively in my old car without losing grip at all.

Maybe the weather is a bit colder than when I had new tyres on my old car but both times that was in a similar time of year.

Just wondering if the tires / conditions are to blame or if the new model with rear wheel steering is actually less stable than the original. The old one was so ruthlessly grippy in all conditions that incident took me by surprise.

I hope after changing your trousers and cleaning the interior, both you and the car are OK!

Must have been scary ?

 

[A.Mayor]

At what speed were you driving?

You probably, had an unfortunate case of aquaplaning, happens at “lower speed” too, and especially with wide tires like on the Taycan.

The RAS, likely exacerbated the situation with probable loss of grip or low traction. In my opinion, this isn’t really about “breaking in” the tires — it was a combination of the conditions, wide tires, and, perhaps, familiar overconfidence in driving in the wet, while running summer tires (for dry conditions) in less-than-ideal weather.

Too bad Porsche doesn’t have Wet Mode on the Taycan.

 

[Jonathan S.]

So definitely in that range where the compound hardens.

 

[Pm1]

I was probably doing about 30mph. The slide seemed to be triggered by braking whilst hitting the wet patch but it was only a shallow puddle a couple of feet wide, the slide went on for probably 10 feet after the water. It was coming down a steep decline and regained grip as the decline eased.

Without a doubt overconfidence played a part but like I say in my old taycan I've done the same road, in worse conditions, considerably quicker many many times and it's never done anything like that or lost traction at all.

 

[Pm1]

So definitely in that range where the compound hardens.

But never an issue the hundreds of times I did it in my old taycan and I will have done it several times on brand new tyres too. Could the pirellis be better than michelin at lower temperatures?

 

[Jonathan S.]

Sure, every tire uses slightly different compounds, so some summer models might be more forgiving of colder temps getting into the danger zone.
Plus the more slippery nature of brand new tires.
And the inherently lesser grip from wet roads.

 

[WuffvonTrips]

The old one was so ruthlessly grippy in all conditions that incident took me by surprise.

That describes my experience too, when I recently switched back to winters on MY22 Turbo CT. Same car, the same tyres that I used last winter. The garage screwed up and fitted them all rotating the wrong way, with the wrong pressures and pressure balance front/rear, but even so, after all that has been rectified, I still don't feel the same reassuring grip.
I'm beginning to wonder whether something is amiss with the suspension- misalignment, damage or maybe even a software update?
<EDIT- additional thought- I wonder whether the recently applied PSM update (WPK0) might have changed more than just the behaviour of the brake pedal>

 

[chun]

About 5C / 41F

So then you have winter tires? At below 7, summer wheels rubber hardens and is not as grippy

 

[f1eng]

So after 4 years and 37000 miles of a 2020 taycan 4s I became tired of the reliability issues and decided to upgrade to a facelift cross turismo 4s.

My old car was on pirelli p zeros originally and I replaced a full set at the same time. I was probably naturally cautious when the car was brand new but I don't remember being cautious when I replaced the tires. That car never broke traction unless I was really provoking it to and it never did a 4 wheel slide.

In my new car, it's only got 100 miles on it, with Michelin pilot sport 4s, it also has rear wheel steering and sport chrono which my old one didn't. I was driving it relatively calmly and I went down a steep downhill with a bend at the bottom, hit a small patch of water and the car slid out on all 4 wheels, managed to get grip back before disaster struck. It just did this on a road I use daily which I have done hundreds of times more aggressively in my old car without losing grip at all.

Maybe the weather is a bit colder than when I had new tyres on my old car but both times that was in a similar time of year.

Just wondering if the tires / conditions are to blame or if the new model with rear wheel steering is actually less stable than the original. The old one was so ruthlessly grippy in all conditions that incident took me by surprise.

Rear wheel steering will never be worse than the standard multi-link flexi bush suspension unless it is broken.

It will probably simply be temperature.
Summer tyres lose grip at low temperatures and it is particularly marked in damp conditions.
I have no idea if the transition temperature is much different between P zero and PS4, though the rumour that the Michelins last longer usually means harder rubber which may have less grip at low temperature.
It could be mould release agent but that wears off pretty quick (less than 1 lap on race tyres).

Personally I fit winter tyres as soon as the temperature looks like it will be less than 5C for long periods.

https://www.tyrereviews.com/
have a lot of information and in one of his controlled temperature tests a few years ago he had an experience like you describe, I had a quick look but there are a lot of videos and I didn't quickly find it.

In racing and rallying having the right tyre for the conditions is literally the most important thing, in changing conditions teams without the best car can do well by either cleverly or luckily getting the right tyres on.

 

[Pm1]

I was thinking of getting a set of winter tyres but more for snow. I navigated 4 winter seasons with the old taycan and the pirellis and drove it pretty hard at times in poor conditions and never experienced anything like that at all.

Could be just the new tyres maybe in my old one the weather was a bit warmer when I was breaking in the tyres. Will update once I've put some more miles into the tyres.

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