Range

dennis

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We are all of course speaking about the Tesla that does 0-100kmh in 2.6.....sorry I was wrong about the price....not $130,000, but $134,900. Speaking about Canadian dollars as Rotordude who I was talking with is from Toront0 Canada and while we discuss in km. The whole world is just about Americans.

Yes, the Tesla has an adaptive suspension, and the taycan has a battery....you point is?
Sorry, I guess I was the only one who failed to grasp the context sensitive use of the ‘$’.

My point was that Tesla has already made recent improvements in Model S in two of the areas you said they needed to address.
 

PanameraFrank

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It's not that bad.

Just because it's not as high as a Tesla Model S's range, doesn't make it bad. 450km is more than enough

What I'm more impressed and interested in is the Taycan nurburgring time, and how it handles/drives compared to the Model S
One big issue is US vs Europe. Yes, if you live in Europe the range is more than sufficient. But the US is far, far behind in charging infrastructure and I'd wager typical travel distance & speed is higher for US buyers.

I think that's where the divide comes in. The specs are fine for Europe but very lackluster in the US. For a US buyer, I was anticipating replacing my Panamera with the Taycan but I use my Panamera as a long range cruiser that's still pretty fun on windy roads; the Taycan doesn't fill that niche given actual range and limited US charging network. It's quite a difference from the marketed 500km range.

I'd wager the vast majority of Taycan sales will be outside of the US. It might just be a case where US buyers have to wait and hope the sales elsewhere bankroll Porsche to improve the battery tech & US infrastructure.
 

Rasmus Wolff

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I hope the Taycan 4S will have better range than the 330KM the online tool gives my preferred Turbo configuration. We should know October 15.

3-4 times per year I drive a 1,000 KM trip and my 2015 P80D adds 30% time to that trip compared to ICE (12hrs compared to 9).

I am hoping the Taycan 4S can somehow at least keep up with this - perhaps through a bigger battery, faster charging or some kind of range mode for these kinds of trips.
 

charliemathilde

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One big issue is US vs Europe. Yes, if you live in Europe the range is more than sufficient. But the US is far, far behind in charging infrastructure and I'd wager typical travel distance & speed is higher for US buyers.

I think that's where the divide comes in. The specs are fine for Europe but very lackluster in the US. For a US buyer, I was anticipating replacing my Panamera with the Taycan but I use my Panamera as a long range cruiser that's still pretty fun on windy roads; the Taycan doesn't fill that niche given actual range and limited US charging network. It's quite a difference from the marketed 500km range.

I'd wager the vast majority of Taycan sales will be outside of the US. It might just be a case where US buyers have to wait and hope the sales elsewhere bankroll Porsche to improve the battery tech & US infrastructure.
wherein the 8th largest economy in the world, and by far the largest market for Tesla, is mysteriously not a part of the US...
 

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Rotordude

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charliemathilde

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Audi’s explanation for non-Tesla range differences. Hint, it’s not because Tesla is years ahead of everyone else regarding battery tech.

From Jalopnik:

https://jalopnik.com/why-no-one-is-beating-teslas-range-1837952903
that article is ridiculous and self refuting. Audi’s explanation for 45% less range is they reserve 12% of the battery capacity for charge longevity... yeah. All the other facts are self reported excuses. Apparently Audi needs a lot more cooling. Well, that’s not a good reason.
 

Nevadagame

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that article is ridiculous and self refuting. Audi’s explanation for 45% less range is they reserve 12% of the battery capacity for charge longevity... yeah. All the other facts are self reported excuses. Apparently Audi needs a lot more cooling. Well, that’s not a good reason.
Are we all done discussing real world range? Today Porsche boasted that in a 248 mile trip they only had to stop once along the route to recharge! Five months ago I pointed out that the Audi e-Tron had an epa range of 204 miles from a 95kw battery, and we all should expect similar ( maybe slightly better) from the Taycan. Maybe Chevy Bolt territory. So this is it. The EPA is soon to certify the Taycan Turbo as 217 miles range. What incredible engineering it took to achieve this, Advanced motor design, hairpin flat wire windings, a revolutionary two speed transmission, super slippery aerodynamic body design, precision manufacturing techniques, and a nation wide network of nearly 100 charging stations, all come together to achieve less range than a Nissan Leaf, and (wait for the best part), all for only 200k! Plus tax of course. And, one more thing, I am buying this car, but I’m willing to admit it’s a huge disappointment, and I’m an idiot with more money than brains.
 

EnjoyTheDrive

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Are we all done discussing real world range? Today Porsche boasted that in a 248 mile trip they only had to stop once along the route to recharge! Five months ago I pointed out that the Audi e-Tron had an epa range of 204 miles from a 95kw battery, and we all should expect similar ( maybe slightly better) from the Taycan. Maybe Chevy Bolt territory. So this is it. The EPA is soon to certify the Taycan Turbo as 217 miles range. What incredible engineering it took to achieve this, Advanced motor design, hairpin flat wire windings, a revolutionary two speed transmission, super slippery aerodynamic body design, precision manufacturing techniques, and a nation wide network of nearly 100 charging stations, all come together to achieve less range than a Nissan Leaf, and (wait for the best part), all for only 200k! Plus tax of course. And, one more thing, I am buying this car, but I’m willing to admit it’s a huge disappointment, and I’m an idiot with more money than brains.
Could not have said this better myself. This is truth. However, you forgot to mention $6 billion invested and 50 years of Engineering excellence. And, yes, I am buying one as well...but my money will only go as far as the Taycan 4S. If only there were another EV car company that had smarter engineers and better battery technology...hmmmmm...
 

Nevadagame

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Could not have said this better myself. This is truth. However, you forgot to mention $6 billion invested and 50 years of Engineering excellence. And, yes, I am buying one as well...but my money will only go as far as the Taycan 4S. If only there were another EV car company that had smarter engineers and better battery technology...hmmmmm...
I hope everyone understands, I’m really not trying to be a wet blanket or diminish anyone else’s excitement, most of us here are in love with the car and will likely buy it, but we all know it should have been one level better. Two surprises are just hard to swallow ($50k up in price) and 100 miles light in range. I wanted this car to have 350 miles of range, I’m sure we will all enjoy these cars, I’m sure they’re beautiful and well-built, it’s really a first world problem I shouldn’t whine and complain but I can’t help wishing the car was better than it turned out.
 

artdept

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Are we all done discussing real world range? Today Porsche boasted that in a 248 mile trip they only had to stop once along the route to recharge! Five months ago I pointed out that the Audi e-Tron had an epa range of 204 miles from a 95kw battery, and we all should expect similar ( maybe slightly better) from the Taycan. Maybe Chevy Bolt territory. So this is it. The EPA is soon to certify the Taycan Turbo as 217 miles range. What incredible engineering it took to achieve this, Advanced motor design, hairpin flat wire windings, a revolutionary two speed transmission, super slippery aerodynamic body design, precision manufacturing techniques, and a nation wide network of nearly 100 charging stations, all come together to achieve less range than a Nissan Leaf, and (wait for the best part), all for only 200k! Plus tax of course. And, one more thing, I am buying this car, but I’m willing to admit it’s a huge disappointment, and I’m an idiot with more money than brains.

yeah. what he said. especially the idiot part
 

Ron R

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Could not have said this better myself. This is truth. However, you forgot to mention $6 billion invested and 50 years of Engineering excellence. And, yes, I am buying one as well...but my money will only go as far as the Taycan 4S. If only there were another EV car company that had smarter engineers and better battery technology...hmmmmm...
Smarter engineers and better battery technology? Still can't figure why some are OK with buying the Taycan if you think anything from Tesla is better engineered?
 

Nevadagame

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Smarter engineers and better battery technology? Still can't figure why some are OK with buying the Taycan if you think anything from Tesla is better engineered?
Ron, the Tesla isn’t “better” engineered, but it may be “more appropriately “ engineered for most people’s tastes and needs. Sure the Taycan will repeat full acceleration 20 times in a row, and handle the race track better, but at the price of 35% less “normal driving” range and that’s wasted engineering at a very high cost, as it applies to my needs. I want a highly spirited driver with the ability to create occasional adrenaline producing acceleration, If I could wave a magic wand, I would reallocate some of that German engineering towards the ability to drive my family on the occasional weekend road trip ( far outside of urban areas) and not be limited by range anxiety. To answer your question of why I am buying this car , I’m buying it because of it’s beautiful design, it’s performance, it’s exclusivity, it’s quality of materials and construction. I think Porsche built an incredible car, but that doesn’t mean I’m blind to fundamental mistakes made by the design and engineering team in what priorities they chose to emphasize and at what costs.
 
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