Getting close to pulling the trigger on first EV

[KLHubb]

Cabin Heat/AC, seat heating seem to be the most energy consuming accessories.
In mild weather I don't bother to use these, and eventually it will be reflected in the guess-o-meter.

Obsolescence/depreciation will affect early Taycans around the edges, but all the wonderful attributes of the 2020 4S remain. I can live with the current range, handling, performance of the 2020 4S, and can wait for truly significant new technology before making another huge financial commitment..

I now have driven my 997.2 for almost 15 years/100k miles, and don't miss the wonderful improvements to the newer, bigger 911's. Unlike the Taycan, it has become a bit collectible, reputed to be the last of the analogue 911's. I can imagine that the 4S will depreciate more like my 2012 Cayenne. or my 2014 Panamera 4 which took a huge hit in value. After 6 years, the Panamera went from $106k new retail to $30k....and that was a great ICE car.

The improvements that will excite me are high energy density solid state batteries, U.S.- legal smart lighting, quiet, long-life tires on very light wheels. Hydrogen fuel cells sound great but must be far off.
Good luck with your deliberations.

Sponsored

 

[joefig44]

How significant is the difference between a Taycan with power steering plus vs just regular power steering?

I'm trying to target used vehicles that have the PTV+ and RAS, but I find that those that have those two performance items don't seem to have PS+.

Similarly - does the acoustic glass make a big difference in making the cabin quieter? There's a few that don't have it that seem to have most other things I want.

Finally, would love to hear comparisons of the BOSE with the Burmeister system in the Taycan and if it's worth it over the BOSE?

 

[KLHubb]

The 2020 Taycan 4S Performance Package included:
Electric Sport Sound
Dynamic Chassis Control
Rear Axle Steering including Power Steering Plus...they seem to come together
Sport Chrono
Torque Vectoring Plus
These options, taken together, make for a formidable upgrade.

I don't haven't have the opportunity to make a comparison, but wanted any added sound attenuation to create an optimum environment for the Burmester system.
I have had Bose systems in my 911 and Cayenne, and find there is no comparison with the Burmester that I have had in my Panamera and Taycan. Burmester is a world class manufacture of audiophile components, and hence is my preference. Since audio is so subjective, you need to make the comparison yourself.

 

[Flying ace]

GTS ST owner here, a few thoughts:

I casually considered the 4S, but focused my search on the GTS and Turbo models. I had a list of "must have" options and "nice to have options", and I saw that most 4S models did not hit half of the "must have" options. Turbo and Turbo S tends to be the most well appointed and GTS had a wide range of builds. My preferred build when using the configurator were in the $165-$170k range, and that is rarified air for a 4S.

If you can find a 4S, it's the better value over the long term. For depreciation, I think it's difficult to extrapolate beyond 5 years. You can do the math based on 2020 models current values. Unknown is how the GTS will be regarded. On the one hand, GTS traditionally (ICE cars) were special enough to hold value (e.g. a 997.2 GTS vs a S has a $10k-$30k premium!; 958.1s are all junkyard cars EXCEPT for GTS and Turbo S), however, my biggest disappointment with the Taycan GTS is that there are minimum differentiations for the EV. The special add ons are principally:

- GTS suspension (minimum "butt feel" difference on a heavy car)
- power bump (minimum "butt feel" difference on a heavy car)
- sports design body (looks amazing)
- Turbo motor gearing (no even sure how I would feel this)
- GTS interior package or base RaceTex (but majority of GTS were build with leather interior, wtf why 1st owners why?!)
- only way to get a "Sports" Turismo in North America, all other wagon trims are Cross Turismos

Honestly, I think the major factor that will hold value on my car are: 1. the wagon body 2. color 3. GTS badging

Lastly on buying a 2025 vs a j1.1 - The extra range does help, and the biggest difference is the uprated 320kw charge speed and standard 400v booster which will make the car a bit more future proof though today, the charging infrastructure is the limiting factor for both features. However, I would map out your most typical long distance trips to see if the new range is actually material. To me, the charge stops are still the same, which renders the range difference immaterial. I estimate distances of 400+ miles is where range doesn't matter and charging speed (and infrastructure) and your own body (how often do you have to pee, stretch, walk the dog, walk the kids) are the determinants of stop frequency and length. If you're doing this exercise, just make sure that your assumptions has you starting the trip at 100%, but throughout the trip your range is ONLY 10%-80% of the max range (I myself takes it down to 7% with California infrastructure).

 

[KLHubb]

I agree....the GTS badge will continue to demand a premium over the "S" cars.
By the way, I believe the early Taycan 4S's had larger front brakes that the .2's

 

[joefig44]

GTS ST owner here, a few thoughts:

I casually considered the 4S, but focused my search on the GTS and Turbo models. I had a list of "must have" options and "nice to have options", and I saw that most 4S models did not hit half of the "must have" options. Turbo and Turbo S tends to be the most well appointed and GTS had a wide range of builds. My preferred build when using the configurator were in the $165-$170k range, and that is rarified air for a 4S.

If you can find a 4S, it's the better value over the long term. For depreciation, I think it's difficult to extrapolate beyond 5 years. You can do the math based on 2020 models current values. Unknown is how the GTS will be regarded. On the one hand, GTS traditionally (ICE cars) were special enough to hold value (e.g. a 997.2 GTS vs a S has a $10k-$30k premium!; 958.2s are all junkyard cars EXCEPT for GTS and Turbo S), however, my biggest disappointment with the Taycan GTS is that there are minimum differentiations for the EV. The special add ons are principally:

- GTS suspension (minimum "butt feel" difference on a heavy car)
- power bump (minimum "butt feel" difference on a heavy car)
- sports design body (looks amazing)
- Turbo motor gearing (no even sure how I would feel this)
- GTS interior package or base RaceTex (but majority of GTS were build with leather interior, wtf why 1st owners why?!)
- only way to get a "Sports" Turismo in North America, all other wagon trims are Cross Turismos

Honestly, I think the major factor that will hold value on my car are: 1. the wagon body 2. color 3. GTS badging

Lastly on buying a 2025 vs a j1.1 - The extra range does help, and the biggest difference is the uprated 320kw charge speed and standard 400v booster which will make the car a bit more future proof though today, the charging infrastructure is the limiting factor for both features. However, I would map out your most typical long distance trips to see if the new range is actually material. To me, the charge stops are still the same, which renders the range difference immaterial. I estimate distances of 400+ miles is where range doesn't matter and charging speed (and infrastructure) and your own body (how often do you have to pee, stretch, walk the dog, walk the kids) are the determinants of stop frequency and length. If you're doing this exercise, just make sure that your assumptions has you starting the trip at 100%, but throughout the trip your range is ONLY 10%-80% of the max range (I myself takes it down to 7% with California infrastructure).

Thanks for the details, this is very helpful.

It seems like the drive/handling of a GTS doesn't seem to offer much more than a 4S for you? I ask as getting a GTS over a 4S for me is less about how it looks and more if it actually would offer noticeable handling improvements, etc.
I notice that the it's only the used GTSs that offer the occasional full performance pkg (PDCC + PTV+ + RAS), and almost none of the 4Ss available have any of those three options.
However, I second-guess myself on chasing down this improved driving experience when I think about how I currently use my 2015 Audi S4 (sport diff.), which is rarely to take advantage of it's Dynamic mode. I never track it. I only put it in Dynamic mode once in a while getting on/off freeway ramps or maybe a curvy road (but again, I don't go out chasing that down anymore - used to when I first bought my S4).

The longest trip I would make without wanting to charge is ~140 miles (220 km for us Canadians), and even that would be only a couple times per month.
Most other trips are well under that range. Plus, 90% of the time I would be charging at home.

Finally, I'm more interested in total cost of ownership (and/or total cost of lease), as I have the flexibility to even purchase for cash if that is more appealing.

That all being said, here are some used Taycans available and their Canadian lease costs tax included (and other costs), as well as any notable options or omissions
Would love some help in deciding based on lease cost & options which to investigate further and which to abandon:

	Mileage (km)	Cash Price	Monthly Lease	Total Cost of Lease	Monthly Finance	Total Cost of Financed Vehicle	Key Options/Omissions
2022 Taycan 4S	36,393​	$127,604​	$1,897​	$72,138​	$2,392​	$172,216​	21" wheels, full perf pkg (PDCC, PTV+, RAS), surface coated brakes, passenger display, sport chrono
2024 Taycan 4S	11,212​	$151,873​	$2,442​	$92,868​			20" wheels, passenger display, sport chrono
2024 Taycan 4S	135​	$182,382​	$2,870​	$109,146​	$2,931​	$211,050​	21" wheels
2024 Taycan 4S	9829​	$157,714​	$2,468​	$93,854​			Leather int, 21" wheels, tech pkg, surface coated brakes, passenger display
2022 Taycan 4S CT	20258​	$135,666​	$2,108​	$80,157​	$2,249​	$161,963​	tech pkg, sport chrono
2023 Taycan 4S CT	20303​	$164,029​	$3,052​	$116,062​	$2,760​	$198,734​	Leather int, 21" wheels, full perf pkg (PDCC, PTV+, RAS), tech pkg, surface coated brakes, passenger display, no PDLS+, no acoustic glass
2023 Taycan GTS	9045​	$161,477​	$2,403​	$91,418​			racetex, 21" wheels, only PTV+, no ACC or HUD, 18 way seats, sunroof with variable light control
2024 Taycan GTS ST	13465​	$180,866​	$3,202​	$124,871​	$3,041​	$218,971​	Burmeister, racetex, 21" wheels, only PTV+, no ACC or HUD, 18 way seats, sunroof with variable light control, 18 way seats, no power steering plus

 

[joefig44]

Not to add even more numbers, but I'm also considering the following ICE Porsches.

I'm having a real hard time with the depreciation on the Taycans, so I'm considering "investing" in an ICE Porsche sports car.
There's also a few Cayman S's I'm waiting for quotes on, as I heard I may have more fun with the S vs. the GTS 4.0 since I use the car more around town for errands, etc.

What gives me pause on going this way is that I need to contend with about 2-4 months of potentially full winter weather. That and the fact I'd probably never track it so not sure it would be worth it.

	Mileage (km)	Cash Price	Monthly Lease	Total Cost of Lease	Monthly Finance	Total Cost of Financed Vehicle
2024 Cayman GTS 4.0	0​	$148,572​	$3,084​	$120,268​	$2,319​	$166,968​
2024 Cayman GTS 4.0	12069​	$142,069​	$2,948​	$112,110​	$2,460​	$177,132​
2021 911 Carerra 4	26950​	$170,408​	$2,995​	$113,920​	$2,909​	$209,458​
2021 911 Carerra 4S	48638​	$186,629​	$3,374​	$131,600​	$3,138​	$225,944​

 

[Flying ace]

Moreso, I meant trips longer than 400 miles typically negates any overall range advantage, and variables such as charging speed, charging infrastructure, and biological needs are the driving factors for how frequent and long each stop is.

 

[KLHubb]

Personally, I could not resist the 2022 4S first on your list, optioned like my 2020 4S, for $128k.
36k miles does not seem to me to be a worry, if dealer purchased Porsche Certified.
My only deal breaker would be a nasty color.
For peace of mind, get a Porsche maintenance warranty that goes for as long as you plan to own it.. With 5 years remaining on the battery warranty, you would be covered there until 2030.

Admittedly, I am sensitive to the premium price of the others on your list and would avoid financing by paying cash.
New retail on my 2020 4S was $143kUS with all the options I wanted, and similar to your listed 2022 4S.
I have now have 26k miles on it, have had no problems and it drives as new.
While tempted by new ICE Porsches, I will hold onto my 997.2S and 2012 Cayenne and look forward to purchasing a Cayman E. I confess that ICE vehicles have their charm, but now, they seem very old fashioned to me.....I am not looking back.

 

[joefig44]

Moreso, I meant trips longer than 400 miles typically negates any overall range advantage, and variables such as charging speed, charging infrastructure, and biological needs are the driving factors for how frequent and long each stop is.

Understood - makes sense

 

[joefig44]

Personally, I could not resist the 2022 4S first on your list, optioned like my 2020 4S, for $128k.
36k miles does not seem to me to be a worry, if dealer purchased Porsche Certified.
My only deal breaker would be a nasty color.
For peace of mind, get a Porsche maintenance warranty that goes for as long as you plan to own it.. With 5 years remaining on the battery warranty, you would be covered there until 2030.

Admittedly, I am sensitive to the premium price of the others on your list and would avoid financing by paying cash.
New retail on my 2020 4S was $143kUS with all the options I wanted, and similar to your listed 2022 4S.
I have now have 26k miles on it, have had no problems and it drives as new.
While tempted by new ICE Porsches, I will hold onto my 997.2S and 2012 Cayenne and look forward to purchasing a Cayman E. I confess that ICE vehicles have their charm, but now, they seem very old fashioned to me.....I am not looking back.

Yeah - that's what I thought about that 2022 as it's the only 4S I could find with PDCC, PTV+ and RAS.

My main concerns on it were:
1. higher mileage - but I guess if it's all under warranty anyways and it's a lease so who cares right? Or, do you think it's worth purchasing?
2. it only has the standard black interior (so no full leather) - but I'm wondering if that would matter after a while anyways
3. It's a Dolomite Silver Metallic - not my fav but it's growing on me I guess.
4. Any lag or stuttering in the tech - it would drive me nuts if these older Taycans have stuttering screens often. That alone would push me to a newer model if it was fixed.

My issue with paying cash is that I fully invest any spare funds I have into investments, which means I need to factor in the lost revenue from those investments into the cost of the vehicle if I'm paying cash. That usually means a lease or financing works out better because I earn a higher percentage than even the astronomically high rates Porsche charges.

FYI - similarly spec'd new 2025 Taycan 4S to this 2022 one would be about $233,000 CAD taxes included. So in effect this one is $100K cheaper.
It's only misses for options are:
-no HUD
-no acoustic glass insulation
-it has the model designation deleted

I agree it is hard for me to even consider another ICE after sampling EVs during my test drives over last 4 months.

 

[KLHubb]

I prefer acoustic/thermal glass, but it would not be a deal breaker for me, and I really don't like HUD.
Dolomite Silver sounds nice on a Taycan...a very sophisticated color, unlike my brash Mamba Green Metallic.(but it has grown on me too)

I agree that one must consider the time value of the dollars invested/spent, either in the Taycan or in the stock market. In the U.S., equities have gone up 20%/yr for the past two years, and I would have regretted spending cash on a vehicle foregoing that kind of gain.

The $100k difference between a new properly spec'd 4S and an arguably comparable 2020 4S certainly gets my attention....think about the opportunity cost of sinking that $100k into a new 4S.
As a parsimonious Yankee, over the past 50 years of car ownership, I have side-stepped the depreciation by purchasing used vehicles. I have purchased just two new cars, an '07 Cayman and and the Taycan, because "used" was not available at their introduction.

Perhaps a lot comes down to the quality of service at your dealership....Porsche of Syracuse has been great over the past 15 years. And with a Porsche Electric Vehicle Protection Plan from Porsche Financial Services, I feel I am covered for the cost and aggravation of any problems.
Good luck....I am sure you will love the car regardless of how you acquire it.

 

[joefig44]

I prefer acoustic/thermal glass, but it would not be a deal breaker for me, and I really don't like HUD.
Dolomite Silver sounds nice on a Taycan...a very sophisticated color, unlike my brash Mamba Green Metallic.(but it has grown on me too)

I agree that one must consider the time value of the dollars invested/spent, either in the Taycan or in the stock market. In the U.S., equities have gone up 20%/yr for the past two years, and I would have regretted spending cash on a vehicle foregoing that kind of gain.

The $100k difference between a new properly spec'd 4S and an arguably comparable 2020 4S certainly gets my attention....think about the opportunity cost of sinking that $100k into a new 4S.
As a parsimonious Yankee, over the past 50 years of car ownership, I have side-stepped the depreciation by purchasing used vehicles. I have purchased just two new cars, an '07 Cayman and and the Taycan, because "used" was not available at their introduction.

Perhaps a lot comes down to the quality of service at your dealership....Porsche of Syracuse has been great over the past 15 years. And with a Porsche Electric Vehicle Protection Plan from Porsche Financial Services, I feel I am covered for the cost and aggravation of any problems.
Good luck....I am sure you will love the car regardless of how you acquire it.

The Dolomite colour has grown on me, but I didn't like it at first. I prefer Volcano Grey or Chalk (about as brash as I get). Traditionally I've always driven black cars, but I swore I'd never buy another black car again.

I don't invest much in stocks, but I do invest in mortgages and that generates a stable 10.5% interest income year over year.
However, any funds I buy things with takes away from my ability to earn at that level, so I'm also very frugal and careful with how I choose to buy expensive things.
I've always financed my vehicles (except for my current car as my lease rate was 0.9% for 5 years so that's like free money - and then I bought it out at lease end).
I believe though this new era of depreciation (EVs or not) has heralded the end of my car buying days, and that I'll probably just lease from here on out.

I have only interacted with my local Porsche dealership once during a test drive, so still TBD on that front for how good they are.

About that acoustic glass - I think it may be an issue for me as road noise really bothers me. Curious what you think may be choices #2 and #3 from my list above in the event I forego the cheaper one?

 

[KLHubb]

I do like acoustic glass which is effective in my opinion,
The big problem is tire noise.....I hope that tire companies can develop quieter tires for EV's.
Regarding options #2,#3....it seems you would be paying more, getting a newer/updated model, with fewer miles on the odometer, and less options.
I didn't realize one could do so well with mortgage investments...10.5% is impressive.
Frugal is my mantra too....with exceptions, namely Porsche.

 

[joefig44]

Does anyone here have the real user-provided range values (alongside HP & torque) for each of the following:

2022 - 2024 Taycan 4S (with PB+)
2022-2024 Taycan GTS (with PB+)
2025 Taycan 4S (with PB+)
2025 Taycan GTS (with PB+)
newest Tesla Model S
newest Tesla Model S Plaid
2024 Audi e-tron GT

I'm having a real hard time finding actual range numbers reported by users for average driving in normal weather.

Sponsored