19.2kW charger fix for EA charging and Plug & Charge

plamichigan

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Interesting report. But how do you get 4.5 hours of fueling time spent per month for people who mostly charge at home (page 13)? I'm thinking it would be more like 3-5 minutes per month (to plug in and unplug once a day, each) if plugging in every night in your garage. Here in Mass., there is no government charge to own an EV (to offset the gas tax), and our current electricity rates are such that we see nearly a 50% drop in "fuel" costs in going from ICEV (gasoline only) to BEV (electricity only). You also don't seem to acknowledge that relatively few BEV owners go on long cross-country trips in their BEVs (because of all the problems/reasons that you cite regarding public-charging infrastructure and associated technology), meaning that the vast amount of BEV usage is within a full charge of home (roundtrip). I'd say it's fair to say that 99% or more of BEV charging by owners is at home or at work (or possibly at EA chargers by owners of car brands paying for the first few years of charging, like Porsche; one Model S owner that I know who bought while Tesla was still offering lifetime unlimited charging goes to a nearby Supercharger station once a week or so and never pays for any charging). So this rather skews your report, which seems to assume that BEV owners do long-distance road trips at a similar level to ICEV owners, which is clearly not ture.
Dear CometGuy and other Interested Taycan Owners:

Here is the rationale for the method we use in our EV vs ICE fueling cost study, which I am summarizing (bluntly) here, and which is stated (extensively) in the actual report on the https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com web site:

1. We standardize on the same mileage for EVs and ICE vehicles, because the purpose of the report is to compare real-world fueling cots for typical drivers.

Thus, we don't allow for EV drivers to "baby" their cars, while socking the ICE drivers with full costs. The assumption for mileage is the same for both vehicles.

2. We include 3 charging modalities for EV drivers, varying residential and commercial charging. This recognizes the reality that nearly all drivers must rely upon commercial chargers some times, and many drivers use them regularly.

3. I fully acknowledge, and have spoken of publicly, of the difference between the typical cost and usage of EVs among US drivers, circa 2019-2021. However, the report and our analysis presume that typical buyers in the near future will (and are) considering EVs, and therefore we should consider costs for the majority of households. These households do not have extra cars, often do not have single family residences with attached garages, and must do "daily driver" tasks with their vehicle.

Look for a second edition soon (I am writing this in January 2022)!

PLA

3.
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daveo4EV

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Dear CometGuy and other Interested Taycan Owners:

Here is the rationale for the method we use in our EV vs ICE fueling cost study, which I am summarizing (bluntly) here, and which is stated (extensively) in the actual report on the https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com web site:

1. We standardize on the same mileage for EVs and ICE vehicles, because the purpose of the report is to compare real-world fueling cots for typical drivers.

Thus, we don't allow for EV drivers to "baby" their cars, while socking the ICE drivers with full costs. The assumption for mileage is the same for both vehicles.

2. We include 3 charging modalities for EV drivers, varying residential and commercial charging. This recognizes the reality that nearly all drivers must rely upon commercial chargers some times, and many drivers use them regularly.

3. I fully acknowledge, and have spoken of publicly, of the difference between the typical cost and usage of EVs among US drivers, circa 2019-2021. However, the report and our analysis presume that typical buyers in the near future will (and are) considering EVs, and therefore we should consider costs for the majority of households. These households do not have extra cars, often do not have single family residences with attached garages, and must do "daily driver" tasks with their vehicle.

Look for a second edition soon (I am writing this in January 2022)!

PLA

3.
flawed assumptions will lead to flawed results - so your report makes perfect sense in that context - thanks for sharing - I’ve helped hundreds of new EV buyers in my 8 years - most of them (in fact nearly all of them) - are setup for at home charging - commerical charging is not a thing that most EV owners need to consider other than for road trips.

different strokes - thanks for playing.
 

Genau

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I fully acknowledge, and have spoken of publicly, of the difference between the typical cost and usage of EVs among US drivers, circa 2019-2021. However, the report and our analysis presume that typical buyers in the near future will (and are) considering EVs, and therefore we should consider costs for the majority of households. These households do not have extra cars, often do not have single family residences with attached garages, and must do "daily driver" tasks with their vehicle.
Yes. I've spent every second of my life where it was an option, 15 years so far, living in high rises, and therefore dependent on commercial charging. Ground-level living provides the opportunity for residential charging, but that is traded against unacceptable exposure to nature: extreme temperature excursions if I step out the front door, excrement stuck to my shoes, and miniature assasins attacking my exposed skin. Nature is best enjoyed from a high perch while sipping a cocktail in climate controlled comfort. And since I got a Taycan, I've come up with many new excuses for "daily driver" tasks!
 

whitex

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Dear CometGuy and other Interested Taycan Owners:

Here is the rationale for the method we use in our EV vs ICE fueling cost study, which I am summarizing (bluntly) here, and which is stated (extensively) in the actual report on the https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com web site:

1. We standardize on the same mileage for EVs and ICE vehicles, because the purpose of the report is to compare real-world fueling cots for typical drivers.

Thus, we don't allow for EV drivers to "baby" their cars, while socking the ICE drivers with full costs. The assumption for mileage is the same for both vehicles.

2. We include 3 charging modalities for EV drivers, varying residential and commercial charging. This recognizes the reality that nearly all drivers must rely upon commercial chargers some times, and many drivers use them regularly.

3. I fully acknowledge, and have spoken of publicly, of the difference between the typical cost and usage of EVs among US drivers, circa 2019-2021. However, the report and our analysis presume that typical buyers in the near future will (and are) considering EVs, and therefore we should consider costs for the majority of households. These households do not have extra cars, often do not have single family residences with attached garages, and must do "daily driver" tasks with their vehicle.

Look for a second edition soon (I am writing this in January 2022)!

PLA

3.
I think you're missing the fact that there are different markets. Your report should really show the difference for different usecases. The two extremes will be people who charge nightly in their garage and drive less than a conservative range of their EV, vs. a taxi or delivery driver who drives hundreds of miles a day living in the middle of an area where there are no DC chargers, so L2 charging at best. Every technology has its optimal usage. Is gasoline better than diesel? Again, it all depends on what is your usecase. If you want to fly cargo planes across the oceans, jet fuel is more economical today than electric, car gasoline or diesel. If you are in the middle of nowhere with no gas stations and no EV chargers, I bet EV with solar charger is way ahead of any ICE. So what? You can always find a usecase where one technology is better than others. Is walking better than flying? Well, depends on how far you need to go in what amount of time, right?

EV's are not the best choice for everyone, but they are the best choice for many.

PS> I don't baby my EV (my average consumption is way above the "rated" range consumption as I have a "heavy foot"). I charge nightly at home. The only time I charge outside of the home is on long road trips, which I haven't done since 2018. Even with my car using energy while parked (part of it goes to the 24/7 dashcam which an ICE could not support), I will bet you I pay less for fueling my EV than I would have fueling an ICE.
 

whitex

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Yes. I've spent every second of my life where it was an option, 15 years so far, living in high rises, and therefore dependent on commercial charging. Ground-level living provides the opportunity for residential charging, but that is traded against unacceptable exposure to nature: extreme temperature excursions if I step out the front door, excrement stuck to my shoes, and miniature assasins attacking my exposed skin. Nature is best enjoyed from a high perch while sipping a cocktail in climate controlled comfort. And since I got a Taycan, I've come up with many new excuses for "daily driver" tasks!
EV's are not the best choice for everyone today. You must choose your transportation technology according to your needs. Perhaps public transportation or Uber/Lyft/Other would be cheapest, depending on much much you have to pay for parking vs. how many trips you do every day.

I personally would not buy an EV if I couldn't charge at home or if I had to drive more than the car's max range on most days. I have free DC charging for both my wife's and my EV's. but it's not worth the time spend to drive there and wait.
 


XLR82XS

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I personally would not buy an EV if I couldn't charge at home or if I had to drive more than the car's max range on most days. I have free DC charging for both my wife's and my EV's. but it's not worth the time spend to drive there and wait.
Be patient. Solid-state battery tech is coming = much reduced DC charging times. (see Quantum Scape)
 

Old man

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I have an MY22 CT4 with the 19.2kW onboard AC charger. My recent first attempt at DC charging via Plug n Charge at an EA station failed. After engaging with Porsche Customer Support, I was told that the specific EA units I had tried did not support PNC. Calling this out to those who may be trying to determine if their MY21 19.2kW charger related software update resolves PNC - be aware that there is another variable.

Does anybody know if there is a way to check if a given EA unit actually supports PNC, before actually attempting a charge? I don’t see anything in Charging NA nor in the Electrify America app.
I have the same car as you and have the same problem and also live in New England Have you found a solution to the lack of PnC charging? Have you been able to learn if all EA chargers support PnC. The only ones available in my area are all Signets.
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