Don't miss the auto start/stop nor the turbo lag....

[porcha]

Taycan Turbo is in shop for some software updates (why can't they be OTA?!)... they gave me a nice Macan for a couple of days to use. I haven't driven a petrol Porsche in about 6 months and I forgot about two things which I definitely don't miss: Auto Start/Stop and Turbo Lag. Waiting for the engine to re-start after every traffic light or for the turbo to kick in when you really want to move quickly feel like things from another era after driving my Taycan. I'm used to driving so much faster off the line - It makes driving the Macan not enjoyable... #nevergoingback

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[f1eng]

Despite them being really quick when really pressing on I only ever owned one turbo entirely because for normal use the power has to be waited for.
Fine for racing, fine for efficiency, rubbish for a normal road car IMO.
A hybrid can be good with a turbo engine because the electric motor fills in where the turbo is pathetic.

 

[W1NGE]

My Macan Turbo felt like it was always ready to race turbine like response...so it can be good and it seems to work well in 992s.

Panamera was definitely a little laggy for sure.

Don't the really modern turbos get prepared by electric these days to hide the physic limitation in time taken to spin up the fan(s)?

Taycan Turbo is of course instant

 

[f1eng]

My Macan Turbo felt like it was always ready to race turbine like response...so it can be good and it seems to work well in 992s.

Panamera was definitely a little laggy for sure.

Don't the really modern turbos get prepared by electric these days to hide the physic limitation in time taken to spin up the fan(s)?

Taycan Turbo is of course instant

Turbos with fewer cylinders running high boost at lower rpm are definitely the most efficient but don’t sound as good as high revving multi cylinder engines.
In F1 the hybrids are far more sophisticated than any road car, particularly having a turbo driven generator charging the battery instead of a waste gate but nobody runs the engines at as high an rpm as the rules allow (wind age losses in the engine go up with rpm cubed) so they don’t scream the way I was used to.

OTOH they have about the same power as the NA screamers but use 100kg of fuel instead of 160 kg so the gain in efficiency is spectacular.
The cars are very heavy though now, both the hybrid addition and mechanical parts having to last very much longer.

 

[W1NGE]

Turbos with fewer cylinders running high boost at lower rpm are definitely the most efficient but don’t sound as good as high revving multi cylinder engines.
In F1 the hybrids are far more sophisticated than any road car, particularly having a turbo driven generator charging the battery instead of a waste gate but nobody runs the engines at as high an rpm as the rules allow (wind age losses in the engine go up with rpm cubed) so they don’t scream the way I was used to.

OTOH they have about the same power as the NA screamers but use 100kg of fuel instead of 160 kg so the gain in efficiency is spectacular.
The cars are very heavy though now, both the hybrid addition and mechanical parts having to last very much longer.

Interesting but I guess the days of F1 are numbered now with the rise of Formula E - I've lost interest almost totally as it is just not competitive despite all the fantastic engineering that in put into it.

Bring back the v10 / v12s and I might be more interested!

 

[Vfr750Rouge]

Bring back F1 to Pilots - No electronics no Turbos... or Switch to F E

What is the big deal to burn petrol during week end / Season and provide fun to millions of people? with real pilots driving simple cars yet good cars but no computerized cars - We don't want engineers driving cars but Pilots feeling their cars with their butts!

My humble opinion, having had the privilege to assist Istanbul F1 race in early 90s

 

[LLA53]

Turbos with fewer cylinders running high boost at lower rpm are definitely the most efficient but don’t sound as good as high revving multi cylinder engines.
In F1 the hybrids are far more sophisticated than any road car, particularly having a turbo driven generator charging the battery instead of a waste gate but nobody runs the engines at as high an rpm as the rules allow (wind age losses in the engine go up with rpm cubed) so they don’t scream the way I was used to.

OTOH they have about the same power as the NA screamers but use 100kg of fuel instead of 160 kg so the gain in efficiency is spectacular.
The cars are very heavy though now, both the hybrid addition and mechanical parts having to last very much longer.

This takes me back to 1989, I had a 2.0L naturally aspirated Saab 99. I gutted it and put a 900 turbo engine block in it, new crankshaft, new pistons all precisionally balanced , flywheel and clutch balanced. Took the inter cooler from a 900 and as it won’t fit on a 99 it’s too square, cut it in half and welded it end to end, fitted right behind front spoiler. Took gearbox from a 99 turbo and changed the ratio, 1st to 2nd were too far apart. Straight through exhaust with single straight through box at the rear. Lowered it, anti roll bar on the front only not the rear as front wheel drive. Fitted 900 wiring loom and painstakingly joined the rear 99 lighting wiring to the 900 loom . It’s 1989 it’s a 4 cyclinder, 8v, 4 speed 99 turbo hybrid 0-60 in 5.5s, next to zero lag, lag dropped from being up to 3500-4000rpm to 1500rpm. Loved that car!

 

[f1eng]

Interesting but I guess the days of F1 are numbered now with the rise of Formula E - I've lost interest almost totally as it is just not competitive despite all the fantastic engineering that in put into it.

Bring back the v10 / v12s and I might be more interested!

Is Formula E rising?
News to me.

Mercedes have pulled out.

One of my old Benetton colleagues who was a Team Principle in Formula E has left to become an activist in Extinction Rebellion though. He is a data analyst and is horrified by climate change denial and inadequate action.
I am too, actually, but think it is already too late to prevent catastrophic population collapse of humans.

I liked the older cars best too personally, but that was the era I was lucky enough to work in, so maybe biased.

 

[f1eng]

Bring back F1 to Pilots - No electronics no Turbos... or Switch to F E

What is the big deal to burn petrol during week end / Season and provide fun to millions of people? with real pilots driving simple cars yet good cars but no computerized cars - We don't want engineers driving cars but Pilots feeling their cars with their butts!

My humble opinion, having had the privilege to assist Istanbul F1 race in early 90s

The car has always been more important than the driver in F1, actually. The World Champion has been, with a small number of exceptions, the better of the two drivers in the best car ever since it started in 1950.

I agree that driver aids have made mistakes rarer which makes overtakes rarer too. A 3-pedal car with an H-pattern gearshift takes huge skill to shift fast and reliably for a whole Grand Prix without damaging the internals. With a flappy paddle shift my Mum can change gear as well as Lewis Hamilton.

I also agree that being concerned about the petrol being used in the race is beyond stupid since the huge majority of fuel used as a result of a sporting event is by spectators cars going to the event so football wastes far more fuel and than Formula 1.

When I started fuyll time, with Hesketh Racing in 1976 we had 18 people in the company.
I moved to Williams at the end of 1978 and I made the head count up to 23.
Teams now have 700 to 1000 people.
Is the racing better? Not really IMO.

 

[f1eng]

Moderator pleas remove if inappropriate but

 

[WRC_1S]

Moderator pleas remove if inappropriate but

What a brilliant interesting piece Frank. Awesome. Fascinating career and must have been amazing to work with so many iconic drivers and teams. I've always loved the engineering of motor racing. I was a Marine Engineer in the Royal Navy when I left school at 16, my dad was a mechanic for BMW when I was that age. Cars were always in my blood. I'd love to have done it as a job but ended in the property legal compliance lark. Hey-ho. Thanks for posting that. Really enjoyed it. I'm off start stripping down my webber 40 IDA triples now. Saturday fun

 

[W1NGE]

Is Formula E rising?
News to me.

Mercedes have pulled out.

One of my old Benetton colleagues who was a Team Principle in Formula E has left to become an activist in Extinction Rebellion though. He is a data analyst and is horrified by climate change denial and inadequate action.
I am too, actually, but think it is already too late to prevent catastrophic population collapse of humans.

I liked the older cars best too personally, but that was the era I was lucky enough to work in, so maybe biased.

Mercedes have simply got a strop on but apparently can give Barnes Wallace a run for his money with their bouncing F1 cars - shocking really!

I do think FE is on the ascendancy given the eco credentials + tighter racing and the general tedium of the non competitive F1 circus which is more interested in rules & hypocrisy than racing these days.

 

[Pozuelo]

Watched with great interest and admiration… your views and outlook are parallel to my race car builder, Peter Goldring, who worked alone ! He would work very hard. Each race week, Friday we had two practice sessions, Saturday one practice and one qualifying session and Sunday the race.
He lived and had his workshop, which was cleaner than an operating room, an hour away from the track. On Friday and Saturday, late afternoon’s ritual was to hit the car with a high-pressure washer outside and below and just hose down the interior. No soap to be able to locate any tell-tale oil residues . Then the car was ready for his check-up… oils drained and strained looking for residue, then engine and gearbox pulled out and disassembled completely and checked conscientiously, some with magnifying glass, some with micrometer, and then painstakingly put back together with new oils and ready to go. He would never tighten any nut or screw without a torque wrench or the appropriate application of red or blue Loctite. His cars never DNF’ed, and I mean never. He would go to get 2-3 hours of shuteye and back to the track. Unfortunately this routine cost him his life, suffering a heart attack in his early 60’s. I still remember him fondly every day of my life. He was very hard on drivers, he would not admit lies, late-payers, excuses and would see through everyone. He would cuss at you for being slow with his car, because he knew you (or someone else) would be faster. After 18 months of building the car from scratch, I sold it due to my problems with vertigo. When it was dry, at the track in Tocancipá, the fastest cars would clock 1:14, I would do 1:19 ! Someone else in my car would do 1:14. In the wet, with softened suspension and drift due to the conditions the other faster car would do 1:21 and I would clock 1:20 , only 1 second slower than in the dry. Although it rains often in Bogotá, my vertigo did not allow me to drive safely when going fast, so I was ready to sell the car. I promptly sold it for good money and recouped most of the cost of parts invested in it. I stayed on as team director which meant it was the German engineer, the two drivers and me ! They went on to win the sprint national championship in Colombia and the endurance championship in the same car for two years running. I then moved to Spain and the driver and Goldring parted ways… he always said he was a like a mercenary of the race car industry. The car in question started out as a lowly Renault 4. In long track guise, with long gearing, it was capable of 240km/h and it has been referred to as the fastest R4 in the world. If anyone is interested in more details, I can elaborate…

Fun fact: the white N on the back stands for novice driver ! It was required your first year on the track !

 

[LLA53]

What a brilliant interesting piece Frank. Awesome. Fascinating career and must have been amazing to work with so many iconic drivers and teams. I've always loved the engineering of motor racing. I was a Marine Engineer in the Royal Navy when I left school at 16, my dad was a mechanic for BMW when I was that age. Cars were always in my blood. I'd love to have done it as a job but ended in the property legal compliance lark. Hey-ho. Thanks for posting that. Really enjoyed it. I'm off start stripping down my webber 40 IDA triples now. Saturday fun

interesting, I too joined the Royal Navy at 16 as a marine engineer and my dad was a car mechanic for Saab but his own business and prior an owner operator hgv driver. Spent many school holidays inside an old Perkins engine

 

[WRC_1S]

interesting, I too joined the Royal Navy at 16 as a marine engineer and my dad was a car mechanic for Saab but his own business and prior an owner operator hgv driver. Spent many school holidays inside an old Perkins engine

Haha interesting comparisons. When did you join? 1989 me. Only stayed in a few years. Then went into offshore rig construction in the Yards on the Tyne. Where my H&S career started. I was Pompey FMG then Invincible. My dad ended up owning a scaffold company. I worked for him for a couple of years but we both want to be in charge so clashed so I left :lol:

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