EPA Taycan Turbo

[TaycanNut]

AMIC numbers are based on 75 year old grandmother driving

EPA numbers are based on real world Porsche driving.

Who here buys a Taycan to drive 55 mph in the granny lane?

A Taycan is made to be driven hard.

Porsche blew the design of the Taycan. It made it too small (think Panamera size) and hence battery too small and hence range stinks. In the winter it will be around 140 miles of range. Having owned a number of EVs I can tell you for fact - in the winter in freezing temps you will lose about 33% of range and if you push it hard, like a Porsche is made to be driven, you will lose 25 to 30% of range.

The back seat would have had more leg room had they made the Taycan the size of the Panamera, and the larger battery would have pushed the real world range closer to 300 miles - the magic number.

What is troubling is that the Tesla Performance Model S gets over 150 more miles of range and at the Nurburgring around the 14-mile lap the Model S buried the Taycan. The upcoming Tesla Roadster will bury both of them.......by a wide margin.

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[Friedrich]

I have a feeling that lots of American deposit holders are not going to follow through on their orders based on this range, but the EPA range will not effect European and Chinese buyers. Americans drive their vehicles almost twice as much as their European counterparts, so range is much more of an issue for Americans. (14k miles average for Americans, 7.5k miles for Germans). Quite frankly, other than Tesla, very few electric vehicles that are actually sold outside of the USA have over 200 mile range (not talking about what is offered, but what is actually purchased), like the Renault Zoe and Leaf and slew of Chinese electric vehicles sold in China. Even with Tesla, the small battery is the most popular version of Model 3, whereas the larger battery is more popular in the USA. And with the Taycan 4S, I believe one poster on this forum said in his German dealership, most buyers are opting for the smaller battery, whereas in the USA, almost no-one would buy the smaller battery.

But I also think once the Taycan hits the streets, lots of other people will replace those that dropped off, as this will truly be a show car, or should I say show-off car.

 

[SHN]

AMIC numbers are based on 75 year old grandmother driving

In the winter it will be around 140 miles of range. Having owned a number of EVs I can tell you for fact - in the winter in freezing temps you will lose about 33% of range and if you push it hard, like a Porsche is made to be driven, you will lose 25 to 30% of range.

.

It's not quite like that. For Tesla that has an efficient drive train use less energy than Taycan to drive the car forward, but I assume the amount of energy to heat up the coupe is more or less the same if the coupe is of the same size. I guess actually that the coupe of Taycan is smaller and need less energy to heat. So when Tesla halfs its range under bad conditions, the Taycan may be just reduce it by 40%. I guess we have to wait for the real head to head tests of the Taycan to see. Teslabjørn??

 

[SHN]

Look at the numbers for MPGe for city and highway underneath:

Tesla Model 3: 124 - 116 = 8
Tesla Model S: 115 - 107 = 8
Tesla Model X: 99 - 93 = 6
Porsche Taycan T: 68 - 71 = - 3 !!!

There is less difference between city and highway driving for Taycan.

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

Seriously - how many people who buy a Porsche complain about its gas mileage? I mean, it's a Porsche for gods sake. You buy a Porsche for performance, and as a result you have to spend a bit more time at the gas station. That's always been the tradeoff. All previous EV's have touted their range because this is a major concern due to infrastructure and how much of a pain it's going to be to charge the car. None of them have really been sports cars equivalent to a Porsche. From what I see, Electrify America has stations at regular intervals along all the major routes, and unless you're living in the Dakotas or other remote area, you should be just fine with 200 mile range.

If you buy a GT3 or GTS or Turbo S, are you complaining about the gas mileage, and how many times you'll have to fill-up on long trips? If you're looking for a car to drive on long trips, this probably isn't your choice. If you're looking for what I think will be the best looking, best performing sports sedan in the world - this is your car.

 

[Miwa]

If you are basing your decisions on range or gas mileage, Porsche isn't your brand. If you need to drive 200 miles every day, then the Taycan probably isn't your car. The rest of us will have a full battery every morning (or after work, for those charging for free) and be enjoying ourselves. Even if the Taycan had a 400 mile range, I'm still renting something from Silvercar for a road trip, because someone else's car can take the beating and all those miles.

If the stock tires are some sort of low-rolling-resistance make and suck, I'm going to put some decent summer tires on there, and the range will get even less!

 

[Nevadagame]

If you are basing your decisions on range or gas mileage, Porsche isn't your brand. If you need to drive 200 miles every day, then the Taycan probably isn't your car. The rest of us will have a full battery every morning (or after work, for those charging for free) and be enjoying ourselves. Even if the Taycan had a 400 mile range, I'm still renting something from Silvercar for a road trip, because someone else's car can take the beating and all those miles.

If the stock tires are some sort of low-rolling-resistance make and suck, I'm going to put some decent summer tires on there, and the range will get even less!

No one is complaining about “gas mileage” you can set that strawman up all day long and keep knocking it down but that’s not the issue. If 300km of range were actually enough, without twisting and turning to justify that it was, why do you suppose Porsche spent three years advertising 500 KM range? They knew what they had, they knew what they were building three years ago don’t tell me they didn’t test it over and over and over again. They flat out lied to you and to me knowing that many would twist and turn and figure out a way to justify it.

 

[Ron R]

Seriously - how many people who buy a Porsche complain about its gas mileage? I mean, it's a Porsche for gods sake. You buy a Porsche for performance, and as a result you have to spend a bit more time at the gas station. That's always been the tradeoff. All previous EV's have touted their range because this is a major concern due to infrastructure and how much of a pain it's going to be to charge the car. None of them have really been sports cars equivalent to a Porsche. From what I see, Electrify America has stations at regular intervals along all the major routes, and unless you're living in the Dakotas or other remote area, you should be just fine with 200 mile range.

If you buy a GT3 or GTS or Turbo S, are you complaining about the gas mileage, and how many times you'll have to fill-up on long trips? If you're looking for a car to drive on long trips, this probably isn't your choice. If you're looking for what I think will be the best looking, best performing sports sedan in the world - this is your car.

I totally agree. Porsche (as with every other manufacturer) makes a series of tradeoffs when they design a car (handling, power, efficiency, etc). EV technology brings a whole set of tradeoffs (weight, range, battery life). If you don't agree with Porsche's tradeoffs, you can always buy something else.

Personally I'm waiting to hear Porsche's response to the discrepancy in their estimated mileage and the EPA numbers.

 

[Nevadagame]

No one is complaining about “gas mileage” you can set that strawman up all day long and keep knocking it down but that’s not the issue. If 300km of range were actually enough, without twisting and turning to justify that it was, why do you suppose Porsche spent three years advertising 500 KM range? They knew what they had, they knew what they were building three years ago don’t tell me they didn’t test it over and over and over again. They flat out lied to you and to me knowing that many would twist and turn and figure out a way to justify it.

No one is complaining about “gas mileage” you can set that strawman up all day long and keep knocking it down but that’s not the issue. If 300km of range were actually enough, without twisting and turning to justify that it was, why do you suppose Porsche spent three years advertising 500 KM range? They knew what they had, they knew what they were building three years ago don’t tell me they didn’t test it over and over and over again. They flat out lied to you and to me knowing that many would twist and turn and figure out a way to justify it.

I find it incredibly ironic that the very company who perpetrated the biggest automotive industry lie of all times is trying to make up for it by selling us a $200,000 car based on years of lying to us about what it would be

 

[Skier]

As I meant to say earlier in addition to the very low mileage numbers there is also the issue here in the states that the charging infrastructure hardly exists making the very low range even worse.

 

[Friedrich]

No one is complaining about “gas mileage” you can set that strawman up all day long and keep knocking it down but that’s not the issue. If 300km of range were actually enough, without twisting and turning to justify that it was, why do you suppose Porsche spent three years advertising 500 KM range? They knew what they had, they knew what they were building three years ago don’t tell me they didn’t test it over and over and over again. They flat out lied to you and to me knowing that many would twist and turn and figure out a way to justify it.

In all fairness, Porsche never advertised the Taycan to be 500km, that was the Mission E which was a concept car, NOT advertised on Porsche's website. Once cannot expect the concept vehicle would be the same as the final production vehicle, in body style, range as well as many Concept E electronic features. The Mission E was a concept with many goals reached and some, including the range, were not translated to a production vehicle. Also, on the WLTP test, the Taycan did 450 km (279 miles), which is only 50km or 31 miles less than what Porsche expected to be able to produced. And of course Porsche goes for European measurement, not American. How accurate all the different measurements, we will see in the spring. Would be interested to see how the Leaf, Zoe and Tesla do on the various tests vs real world measurements.

WLTP range vs real world driving: (percent of WLTP range actually achieved)
97% for Kona
92% for the Zoe,
78% for the Leaf and
67% for the i-Pace.
Real World range obviously has to do with how you drive the car.

I assume, if we drive the Taycan like a Porsche, the range will be well under 150-175 miles if you drive it like a Porsche. In fact I wonder of the 26 zero to 200kmh starts drained the battery in that famous Top Gear video. But if you insist on using a Porsche as long distance carrier, then drive it conservatively and the WLTP is probably realisitic.

The PRIMARY goal of Porsche was the have an electric vehicle drives like a Porsche, and continually and instinaniously drive like a Porsche, not have to wait for the battery to be prepped like a Tesla or only perform for a few minutes. The primary goal for Tesla is range. If range is an issue, then this car obviously is not for you, and there are plenty of Tesla forums you can go to discuss range. For European and Chinese drivers, which will represent 75% of the Taycan owners,as well as the majority of American Porsche owners , 200-250 mile range is sufficient, I havent driven my Porsche over 100 miles in one day in over 3 years, and maybe did so only 3 or 4 times in 7 years!! And I believe there are quite a few people like you that are disappointed and I am sure many deposits in the USA are being returned, but once the car hits the streets, so many more will be ordered as it truly is an amazing and beautiful car (for those that dont want to use the Porsche for long distance driving).

 

[charliemathilde]

If the stock tires are some sort of low-rolling-resistance make and suck, I'm going to put some decent summer tires on there, and the range will get even less!

lol, I had the same thought about the tires.

 

[charliemathilde]

Seriously - how many people who buy a Porsche complain about its gas mileage? I mean, it's a Porsche for gods sake. You buy a Porsche for performance, and as a result you have to spend a bit more time at the gas station. That's always been the tradeoff. All previous EV's have touted their range because this is a major concern due to infrastructure and how much of a pain it's going to be to charge the car. None of them have really been sports cars equivalent to a Porsche. From what I see, Electrify America has stations at regular intervals along all the major routes, and unless you're living in the Dakotas or other remote area, you should be just fine with 200 mile range.

If you buy a GT3 or GTS or Turbo S, are you complaining about the gas mileage, and how many times you'll have to fill-up on long trips? If you're looking for a car to drive on long trips, this probably isn't your choice. If you're looking for what I think will be the best looking, best performing sports sedan in the world - this is your car.

i mean I joke about it. ~220mi range at 11mpg in the TTS. Life is too short to drive in Normal mode. turbos exist to be used.

 

[charliemathilde]

I find it incredibly ironic that the very company who perpetrated the biggest automotive industry lie of all times is trying to make up for it by selling us a $200,000 car based on years of lying to us about what it would be

you seem very upset about Porsche being excessively optimistic with their concept car. This is in no way remarkable or worth getting upset about. Every company tends to over play these marketing stats. The EPA numbers are the only real ones and the Mission E never had any.

tell me more about all the class action lawsuits against Tesla for software updates reducing range ....

I don’t know why anyone thought Porsche would smack Tesla around on the very first try out. I don’t want to buy a model S, but I have nothing but respect for Tesla’s engineers. World class with over 10 years experience shipping.

after the Audi e-tron numbers got published, based on the same J1 platform, there wasn’t much reason to expect otherwise. Ditto for the WPLT numbers. Disappointing yes, surprisingly evil deceit ... not so much.

 

[Rotordude]

I don’t know why anyone thought Porsche would smack Tesla around on the very first try out. I don’t want to buy a model S, but I have nothing but respect for Tesla’s engineers. World class with over 10 years experience shipping.

dude, the Porsche ceo himself stated that “no one will be talking about Tesla when the taycan is released”.

Porsche invested 6 billion dollars ( with a capital B) in this electrification endeavour! The Audi Etron 204 mile flop and now this 201 mile disclosure doesn’t give us investors a warm and fuzzy! In fact, Porsche financials should be under extra scrutiny now! Dieselgate....now this! Don’t even care about the taycan now...more interested in financials!

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