EPA Taycan Turbo

[charliemathilde]

dude, the Porsche ceo himself stated that “no one will be talking about Tesla when the taycan is released”.

lol. That was silly. Of course Elon says he’s going to live on mars. lolz. Maybe a little hyperbole is just par for the course with ceos ? Not that Elon isn’t also his own special snowflake of crazy

Porsche invested 6 billion dollars ( with a capital B) in this electrification endeavour! The Audi Etron 204 mile flop and now this 201 mile disclosure doesn’t give us investors a warm and fuzzy! In fact, Porsche financials should be under extra scrutiny now! Dieselgate....now this! Don’t even care about the taycan now...more interested in financials!

so much dumb in so little space. Porsche had to start somewhere and a Panamera priced luxury sedan is a far more profitable and sensible than starting with VW id3. The taycan will pay for itself even if it doesn’t particularly succeed. They’ve already sold out a years production, and they’ll sell out 2-3 more without issue.

Everybody is 5ish years behind Tesla. There’s no malice, deceit or cheating going on here. Porsche has to start somewhere, and a car that can actually finish the ‘ring and handles like a Porsche albeit with 200mi range is where they got to for gen 1. There’s a lot of learning for .2

if you don’t care about build quality, handling, or personalization then go buy a model 3. Good stuff, way cheaper.

this product makes infinitely more sense than anything BMW, Toyota (hydrogen, oh god so many lolz), or GM is doing. And Ford ... the e-mustang isn’t going to be great but at least it’s trying,

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[Ron R]

I don’t know why anyone thought Porsche would smack Tesla around on the very first try out. I don’t want to buy a model S, but I have nothing but respect for Tesla’s engineers. World class with over 10 years experience shipping.

ROTFL! Your quote really made my day; thanks.

 

[Ron R]

dude, the Porsche ceo himself stated that “no one will be talking about Tesla when the taycan is released”.

That was either a misquote or a poor translation. A statement like that is so counter to Porsche's culture. Just like the term "Tesla killer" is something made up my the automotive press, not the auto manufacturers.

 

[boyko23]

No one is complaining about “gas mileage” you can set that strawman up all day long and keep knocking it down but that’s not the issue. If 300km of range were actually enough, without twisting and turning to justify that it was, why do you suppose Porsche spent three years advertising 500 KM range? They knew what they had, they knew what they were building three years ago don’t tell me they didn’t test it over and over and over again. They flat out lied to you and to me knowing that many would twist and turn and figure out a way to justify it.

To be fair that 500km range was for the Mission E as a concept. Turbo and Turbo S are the top dogs, but just firstly released.
4S is already at 450km and I'm sure that other models will come with 500ish km. range. No lie for me here...

 

[Friedrich]

dude, the Porsche ceo himself stated that “no one will be talking about Tesla when the taycan is released”.

That is NOT what the Blume CEO said. You need to read the proper ACTUAL German statement and get a correct translation. I did that for the forum back in April. Totally wrong translation!!!!!!! https://www.handelsblatt.com/untern...l?ticket=ST-33510684-NEdiKyOe3mvm3Lh16S9f-ap1
Handelsblatt question: "Wird ab dem 1. September keiner mehr über Tesla sprechen?
Translation: "Will any one even talk of Tesla after September 1?"
CEO Blume: "Da haben wir uns, ehrlich gesagt, keine Gedanken gemacht."
Translation: "Honestly said, we didn't even give any thoughts to that."

In other words, they are NOT THINKING about TESSLA, they are thinking of their own product. He complimented Tesla and Elon Musk and then said Porsche took their own path to develop a car that drove like a Porsche and Tesla has their own path. At NO point did he say "no one will be talking about Tesla when the taycan is released”. Of course not, he recognizes for the most part the are two different demographic markets and different types of vehicles. (Tesla buyers have average income 1/3 of Porsche owners, so its a different market. average household income of Tesla buyer is $150,000. Average Porsche household income in the USA is $511,000)

I understand that Americans, and perhaps Canadians tend to be very ethnocentric and think the world revolves around them. Europeans don't use EPA, that is American, kind of irrelevant to Europeans and Chinese, with totally different driving habits. The measurement Europeans use is the WLTP.

WLTP have the Taycan the range of 450 km (279 miles), which is only 50km or 31 miles less than what Porsche expected to be able to produced. And of course Porsche goes for European measurement, not American. How accurate all the different measurements with the Taycan, we will see in the spring.

Here are some measurements of accuracy of the WLTP for other vehicles that have a track record.
WLTP range vs real world driving: (percent of WLTP range actually achieved)
97% for Kona
92% for the Zoe,
78% for the Leaf and
67% for the i-Pace.
Real World range obviously has to do with how you drive the car. Gas powered 911 also vary greatly http://www.fuelly.com/car/porsche/911 I am guessing if you drive the car like cars are normally driven in Germany, then the Taycan will get close to the 450km. (280miles) But if the Porsche is driven like a Porsche all day, then it maybe be 2/3 of that or uder300km (maybe 190 miles). (you can see that on the MPG chart for the ICE 911 too. For almost all European and Chinese drivers, that range works, but maybe not for North Americans. Would we all rather have more range of course, but Porsche owners want a car that drives like a Porsche, not a transporter ie. Hyundai Kona, Renault Zoe, Nissan Leaf, Tesla, etc

Maybe its time to stop trolling? When was the last time you made a constructive statement on this forum?

 

[Rotordude]

Maybe its time to stop trolling? When was the last time you made a constructive statement on this forum?

ask the moderator? Tell them to ban me for “trolling”, per your opinion/ judgement.

 

[Scandinavian]

Real World range obviously has to do with how you drive the car. Gas powered 911 also vary greatly http://www.fuelly.com/car/porsche/911 I am guessing if you drive the car like cars are normally driven in Germany, then the Taycan will get close to the 450km. (280miles) But if the Porsche is driven like a Porsche all day, then it maybe be 2/3 of that or uder300km (maybe 190 miles). (you can see that on the MPG chart for the ICE 911 too. For almost all European and Chinese drivers, that range works, but maybe not for North Americans. Would we all rather have more range of course, but Porsche owners want a car that drives like a Porsche, not a transporter ie. Hyundai Kona, Renault Zoe, Nissan Leaf, Tesla, etc
?

why do you think Porsche owners in Germany will get a longer range? All the years I have driven through Germany on both Autobahn and normal roads, Porsche’s have really moved. And I have not been in a slow car, either a M5 or an Aston.
I have also driven quite a number of times with rental cars in the US, both East Coast, West Coast and Texas, and never seen anyone travelling at the speeds send in Germany.

I liked the link you provided with the different real life consumptions for 911 and I agree, that are real figures. I do not quite get those figures with my 996 but close enough!

 

[Friedrich]

why do you think Porsche owners in Germany will get a longer range? All the years I have driven through Germany on both Autobahn and normal roads, Porsche’s have really moved. And I have not been in a slow car, either a M5 or an Aston.
I have also driven quite a number of times with rental cars in the US, both East Coast, West Coast and Texas, and never seen anyone travelling at the speeds send in Germany.

I liked the link you provided with the different real life consumptions for 911 and I agree, that are real figures. I do not quite get those figures with my 996 but close enough!

Point taken, clearly when someone is driving a Porsche like a Porsche on the Autobahn, the range will be greatly reduced, and I agree I may be wrong about greater range in Europe and China. based on driving habits. I was going on the assumption, that on the average, the American driver drives on freeways and or higher speed roads, many more miles as percentage of total miles driven as the cities are sprawled, with 30 40 minute commutes and sometimes one hour are common. Europeans and Chinese tend to have very short commutes, on the average, and mostly city, where electric cars are more efficient than on the highway. Maybe my assumption is wrong. Would be something interesting to research. With electric cars, it the opposite of ICE, city driving is more efficient than highway or higher speed driving. In total miles, a German driver goes about 7500 miles per year and the American 14,000 miles (12,000 km and 22,400km respectively). According to ABC news, the average American commutes 16 miles per day (26km). According to Deutsche Welle, the average German commutes 10.5 miles (17km)

 

[PetroK]

I'm personally disappointed not specifically by range, but by combination of factors

500km range - none
350kw charging - none
Price between Cayenne and Panamera - none

This is is just 3 things from promised and I was giving my deposit based on some promises. I understood for example clearly that they will no put suicide doors to production. But I know how marvelous is Porsche engineering in general I truly believed that they will be able to come up with better then startup company car (in terms of electric tech), I obviously didn't have any doubts in build quality. And I still seriously don't understand what so special can be in that Tesla tech, I'm quite sure they were able to rip Tesla apart and do reverse engineering. There is no magic there, if battery is same Li-Ion, then everything is boiling down to efficiency of hardware and software.

Can company which position themselves as performance oriented and with 100 years of experience come up with more efficient motors and drivetrain then startup?

And then just small cherry on top. in 130-180k car there is no f...g soft close doors and HUD.

 

[Nevadagame]

I'm personally disappointed not specifically by range, but by combination of factors

500km range - none
350kw charging - none
Price between Cayenne and Panamera - none

This is is just 3 things from promised and I was giving my deposit based on some promises. I understood for example clearly that they will no put suicide doors to production. But I know how marvelous is Porsche engineering in general I truly believed that they will be able to come up with better then startup company car (in terms of electric tech), I obviously didn't have any doubts in build quality. And I still seriously don't understand what so special can be in that Tesla tech, I'm quite sure they were able to rip Tesla apart and do reverse engineering. There is no magic there, if battery is same Li-Ion, then everything is boiling down to efficiency of hardware and software.

Can company which position themselves as performance oriented and with 100 years of experience come up with more efficient motors and drivetrain then startup?

And then just small cherry on top. in 130-180k car there is no f...g soft close doors and HUD.

On the bright side, you did get the unadvertised innovation of “foot garages”. You know, those two large holes in the battery where 50 miles of range could have gone.

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

I agree that Porsche made some statements that overhyped the range and the charging efficiency of the car. So, if you are a Porsche enthusiast, why do you buy a Porsche? It's not because upper management is completely transparent. It's not because they get great gas mileage. It's not because they make compromises to performance to improve efficiency and 'sustainability'.

For me, I buy a Porsche to put a smile on my face every time I drive the car. Everything else is secondary. Yes, I need a 4 passenger car that I can transport friends to dinner. Yes, I want to be able to put my bike in the back, along with a variety of other items that would classify as 'practical'. Porsche has done that for me with this car, and from what I'm hearing from the reviews, they've done exactly the right thing. They've compromised range and charging efficiency for performance and as early a release as possible. I'm ok with driving the best performing 4 passenger sedan on the planet - by a large margin. I can't wait to get my car - and yes, I will be driving with the highly inefficient summer tires.

 

[svp6]

In my experience with Tesla, the EPA range is hard to achieve on highway driving except in summer time. Winter time range is about 70% of EPA (but can be lower in extreme cold). The only thing I hope is that since the Taycan efficiency is so poor already, temperature may have a little less impact; the UK range calculator gives a 100% highway range for the 4S with the 20" aerowheels at 218 miles at 20C, drops to only 193 at -10C (that is 89% of 218). For city daily driving the car will be great. For winter trips not so much. At this time there is only one Electrify America station in entire Minnesota. If Porsche places high-power chargers at their dealers - and if those are accessible during off hours there is still some hope for me. I really don't want another Tesla - even if financially and practically it will be much easier to live with.

 

[feye]

I agree. The issue for me is not so much that I cannot live with 200 or say 235 mile range for the 4S, but what it may do to the value of the car. I am a big fan of Porsche (currently drive an 18 Panamera 4 and wife a 19 Macan S) but the Taycan I configure is over $130,000, which is OK if it retains Porsche like value. Is Tesla that far ahead on battery design and efficiency? I don't plan to launch my Taycan 10 times to 60 mph. I've owned many high performance cars like an M5 that sacrifice efficiency for performance - but the MPG on my M5 was competitive with similar performance cars. Could buying a Taycan be like buying an iPhone with, say, a 4 hour battery life when the standard is much higher? What if Porsche introduces a new improved battery next year? Is my $130,000 Taycan now worth $50,000? Cynics may say don't buy a $130,000 car if you are concerned about depreciation, but I don't want to be the first to own a car with an obsolete battery. I like everything about the Taycan and am willing to pay a premium for Porsche design, fit, finish and engineering. Is the battery engineering up to the Porsche standard?

Come on, how likely is it, that in a year or two suddenly all new EVs on the market come out with a miracle battery, which has twice the capacity and half the weight. Such breakthroughs are extremely rare and even if there is a shift to a new battery technology the first version will likely to be hardly much better than the on you have purchased now.

Let's not forget, the reviews of people who have driven the Taycan are very good. The orders are flooding in, Porsche wants to produce more, but might have problems ramping up production. Therefore it could well be that the price of the car is extremely stable.

 

[grahamsimmonds]

The EPA range is a lie. The Taycan Turbo is more than capable of achieving a 200 mile range and I am entirely confident that I can make it do that. What is an absolute joke is the Tesla EPA range figures. For example, my Tesla P100D Model S supposedly has an EPA range of 315 miles. There is no way on Earth I could get my car to do that range. Driving at the speed limits I could manage 250-60 miles. When I look at the figures for the other Tesla models, I think they are all unachievable.

So can someone explain to me why the EPA would deliberately put up a figure for the Taycan that was easily manageable and then post figures for Teslas that are impossible? Its not possible that the EPA which is an organisation run by the Trump Administration is being a touch protectionist? Fine if you want to believe their figures but I will stick with the Porsche/AMIC/WLTP figures!

 

[Friedrich]

The EPA range is a lie. The Taycan Turbo is more than capable of achieving a 200 mile range and I am entirely confident that I can make it do that. What is an absolute joke is the Tesla EPA range figures. For example, my Tesla P100D Model S supposedly has an EPA range of 315 miles. There is no way on Earth I could get my car to do that range. Driving at the speed limits I could manage 250-60 miles. When I look at the figures for the other Tesla models, I think they are all unachievable.

So can someone explain to me why the EPA would deliberately put up a figure for the Taycan that was easily manageable and then post figures for Teslas that are impossible? Its not possible that the EPA which is an organisation run by the Trump Administration is being a touch protectionist? Fine if you want to believe their figures but I will stick with the Porsche/AMIC/WLTP figures!

Hey, the current "President" believes German imports are a threat to national security. (only way he can threaten tariffs).....and the EPA is currently run by people wanting to promote oil and coal, NOT new technology........On the other hand, I rarely ever buy into conspiracy theories without concrete evidence.........promotion of conspiracy theories with facts and evidence is reserved usually for right wingers and the Trumptards.....

I more question the methodology of the EPA on electric vehicles.......

Here is a Tesla FanBoy review of the Taycan. Very good objective review. he with Teslarati tested a Taycan in Southern California. Even Rode it hard and in the mountains. He estimated range on their all day trip for the vehicle to have a range of 268 miles (actual measurement)
https://teslanomics.co/uploader/teslanomics/

And this is from a Tesla FanBoi!!

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