J1.1 Taycan High Voltage Battery Reliability Survey

[chun]

@chun - that’s an extra vote! Which makes 21% rounded.
I wonder if a full swap to j1.2 modules can now be negotiated when a failure occurs.
The extra labour cost per module is probably not significant.

It’s based on availability of modules.
The service I had this done at was/is doing a lot per week, so they had/have significant stock of modules

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[Caraholic]

Has anyone had a double dip replacement?
Module replacement on more than one occasion?

I did on my first taycan. 12 cell modules were replaced at a cost of 43k (Porsche Cost) then 8 months later it failed again with another couple modules going bad. Ended up replacing the entire pack. I’ve said it before but these module replacements are bandaids, the other ones will eventually fail.

 

[D00notD00d]

It is worth restating Porsche’s description of the manufacturing defect, as supplied to their ‘home’ safety regulator.
‘A combination of production issues (such as a torn anode tab, a folded cathode tab, a peeled-off cathode or a double production topic pouch crack) was found in some of the batteries' high-voltage modules. Over the service life of the vehicle, these issues, when combined, can increase the risk of fire.’
Repeat failures show that (1) the analysis method isn’t 100% reliable (how could it be?); (2) the latent nature of the manufacturing defect, which means it may not be exposed until after the manufacturer’s warranty period has expired. The language in the recent TSB which appears to pass this off as ageing rather than a defect appears disingenuous and dishonourable.

 

[D00notD00d]

So the poll is the worst case scenario: < 18,3% has had module(s) replaced.
That's actually great!
According to the thread of Cris most batteries are perfectly fine so this poll is actually showing that.

The half full view is that the majority of batteries are perfectly fine. The half empty view is that, because the defect is exposed by use, the number of failures may grow over time.

 

[snstevens]

According to some online info, there are ~13k members of the Taycan forum (~10% of the ~136k units sold). That would seem to be a relevant number, but only 122 forum members have responded, and that doesn’t produce a useful statistic.

On the other hand, I agree that those who did vote are typical of the “engaged” members, and to say that 80% have no battery module replacements sounds excellent to me. This is a far cry from the early ARB6/7 panic that all of our batteries were likely to go up in smoke

Apropos of HV Batteries — Our local dealer now has a dedicated tech and battery inspection/module replacement area in the main service area (prime viewing from the waiting area window). No more shipping out batteries.

 

[Iben]

My old car was traded in almost 5 years old, so I voted (no battery issues)

 

[Dee]

The half full view is that the majority of batteries are perfectly fine. The half empty view is that, because the defect is exposed by use, the number of failures may grow over time.

Not entirely true.
If a battery has good modules they all wear evenly.
The problem is that early modules (A-F) wear unevenly but not all.
If it hasn't shown in, let's say 30.000 km, it probably won't show in the future.
Batteries do degrade by use though.
Let's hope defects will show within 8 years/100.000mls, I'd say.

 

[D00notD00d]

@Dee - Porsche’s submission to the EU regulator contradicts your view. See #18 above.

The production defect may be present in all j1.1, up to 4/3/24.

https://ec.europa.eu/safety-gate-alerts/screen/webReport/alertDetail/10092672?lang=en

 

[D00notD00d]

My old car was traded in almost 5 years old, so I voted (no battery issues)

What happened afterwards?
If you don’t know for certain that your former car didn’t have a replacement after you sold it, you’re an unreliable witness.

 

[chun]

What happened afterwards?
If you don’t know for certain that your former car didn’t have a replacement after you sold it, you’re an unreliable witness.

I mean if you look in the list of people that voted 0 modules replaced, you can see some people that had their car in the service for a month or even 3 months for arb5/6/7 or ara4/5, and yet they had 0 modules replaced. Mhmmm

The reality is most people don’t know, like it was posted above. Just like I didn’t know my heater was replaced until the report from ct14.
But their ego won’t let them select that option absolutely comically clear when 0 people chose “don’t know”

 

[Dee]

@Dee - Porsche’s submission to the EU regulator contradicts your view. See #18 above.

The production defect may be present in all j1.1, up to 4/3/24.

https://ec.europa.eu/safety-gate-alerts/screen/webReport/alertDetail/10092672?lang=en

Sure, we're all speculating here but normally, if a battery has been under a certain amount of load in a certain timeframe, the difference in voltage is a good indication of health, that's just common knowledge.
You can monitor that yourself.
Within a tolerance there's no need to mark a module as "defective", that may be around ±0,005V (5mV), which is ridiculously steady imho.

Forgot to add that some modules are (possibly) shorted out by water ingress due to leaking seals.
See posts of ct14garage.
There was a recall about some 22 models if I recall correctly.
So not a module defect but an effect of a leaking seal (cause).

 

[B61]

Former J1.1 owners: unless you know for certain that your former car hasn’t had a replacement after you sold it, please don’t vote!

I’m former J1.1 owner, no cells replaced.

otoh, i’m wondering if failedcharging unit might be the reason for cells failures as well?
Especially on ultra fast carging (250kw+)?

 

[ovonrein]

Have such chargers failed on you? Charging above 1C is when things get dicey. But Porsche know this and the charge curve drops off pretty rapidly past 70% below 1C.

 

[ovonrein]

If a battery has good modules they all wear evenly.

I have used many such packs flying RC helicopters. Not one died with all cells having worn evenly. They were all retired because balancing the pack to 100% would take forever, because different cells aged very differently. Might of course all have been "bad cells".

 

[D00notD00d]

Please vote accurately, not speculatively!

If you bought your car used and haven’t verified from its PCSS record whether its had any battery modules replaced, you’re a ‘don’t know’.

You’re also a ‘don’t know’ if you’ve sold a car and don’t know if it has had any battery modules replaced since you sold it.

Votes can be changed.

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