Gen 1 battery replaced with Gen 2 battery

[Talisker]

My Gen 1 battery was damaged and is having to be replaced.
Yesterday I was told that the battery would be replaced with a Gen 2 battery - HAPPY DAYS !!!
However, today the dealership advised that although it is a Gen 2 battery, the vehicle is Gen 1 so it converts the battery (using the conversion kit) back to make it compatible with the vehicle. This means I won’t get the same range as the Gen 2 Taycan.
Apparently, it is the technology which is set by Porsche.

Can anyone explain why, other than generating sales of the Gen 2 car?

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[2P168S]

The good news is, even if they limit the capacity of your new battery by setting a tighter voltage range (e.g. when you see 100% the battery is really at, say 85%) then the degradation of the battery should be lower as it will effectively see a lower depth of discharge. You are getting a benefit for sure.

 

[Techwizard100]

Take the (W)in!

 

[SergeyIndy]

This is good news for all of us, which hopefully means they have run out of Gen 1 batteries.
We knew all along this would mean that the replacement will emulate Gen 1 battery with no Gen 2 benefits of additional range, faster charging at lower temperatures, or longer warranty, but I would take Gen 2 battery any day, which uses better chemistry and hopefully more reliable than Gen 1.

 

[Neptune]

Most of the range of Gen 2 comes from more efficient design.

For example gen2 has more 800 volt components. So less loss converting to 400 and 48 volts.

 

[prj]

They can't limit the top because then they can't top balance it ever etc...

If you would like to contribute information and actual numbers, then I can send you a modified controller, and we can datalog everything.

After that we (the whole forum) will have objective information and numbers about the maximum capacity, the maximum allowed depth of discharge and the maximum discharge rate.

Also, if you have a Turbo or Turbo S most likely the car can make closer to 900hp if they didn't limit the BMS on purpose, but again, need info to see that.

As to why they are replacing it with a Gen 2 battery - it's very simple. LG Chem does not produce the chemistry used in the Gen 1 battery anymore. They physically can't get any more Gen 1 batteries made and they ran out of them.

This is good news for all of us, which hopefully means they have run out of Gen 1 batteries.
We knew all along this would mean that the replacement will emulate Gen 1 battery with no Gen 2 benefits of additional range, faster charging at lower temperatures, or longer warranty, but I would take Gen 2 battery any day, which uses better chemistry and hopefully more reliable than Gen 1.

It's not so simple. You can't just limit the max. Bottom buffer could be limited in theory, but I seriously doubt they will go through all the trouble to make some insane calibration of the BMS specifically to gimp the battery.

 

[2P168S]

They can't limit the top because then they can't top balance it ever etc...

With NMC811, you can definitely limit top of charge to 4.10, 4.05V, whatever, and still top balance.

 

[prj]

With NMC811, you can definitely limit top of charge to 4.10, 4.05V, whatever, and still top balance.

The thing is they already have a fairly decently sized top buffer from factory. 100% is never actually 100%.

 

[W1NGE]

My Gen 1 battery was damaged and is having to be replaced.
Yesterday I was told that the battery would be replaced with a Gen 2 battery - HAPPY DAYS !!!
However, today the dealership advised that although it is a Gen 2 battery, the vehicle is Gen 1 so it converts the battery (using the conversion kit) back to make it compatible with the vehicle. This means I won’t get the same range as the Gen 2 Taycan.
Apparently, it is the technology which is set by Porsche.

Can anyone explain why, other than generating sales of the Gen 2 car?

Yeah that's the policy for quite a while now.

 

[2P168S]

The thing is they already have a fairly decently sized top buffer from factory. 100% is never actually 100%.

True, but my J1.1 shows >4.20V at “100%”. I’m assuming J1.2 is the same.

 

[W1NGE]

Most of the range of Gen 2 comes from more efficient design.

For example gen2 has more 800 volt components. So less loss converting to 400 and 48 volts.

Ahem - most of the range is from additional usable battery - 95lWh vs 83.9 kwh given the increased size.

 

[prj]

True, but my J1.1 shows >4.20V at “100%”. I’m assuming J1.2 is the same.

Yup, but now you'd have to limit around 10% more. That'd be closer to 4V (or even below) if you want to emulate the same capacity.

Well, we can make a lot of theories or someone with a J1.2 battery can just take my offer of fitting my controller and we can get raw numbers for everything. Then instead of guessing we will know exactly what they did.

 

[2P168S]

Yup, but now you'd have to limit around 10% more. That'd be closer to 4V (or even below) if you want to emulate the same capacity.

Well, we can make a lot of theories or someone with a J1.2 battery can just take my offer of fitting my controller and we can get raw numbers for everything. Then instead of guessing we will know exactly what they did.

I'd love to see the numbers too. Very curious to know how they implemented this.

 

[Pchak]

I appreciate everyone's input on this topic. Will definitely follow...

 

[tophamn]

My Gen 1 battery was damaged and is having to be replaced.
Yesterday I was told that the battery would be replaced with a Gen 2 battery - HAPPY DAYS !!!
However, today the dealership advised that although it is a Gen 2 battery, the vehicle is Gen 1 so it converts the battery (using the conversion kit) back to make it compatible with the vehicle. This means I won’t get the same range as the Gen 2 Taycan.
Apparently, it is the technology which is set by Porsche.

Can anyone explain why, other than generating sales of the Gen 2 car?

Playing devil's advocate: why should Porsche give you back something better than what you paid for?

Anticipating the follow-up question: no, I don't expect Porsche to reset the battery warranty, either - they guarantee the battery from when the car was new.

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