US 3-Phase Charging

Td78

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Does anybody in the US have any experience with chargers that are available in the US that can be wired to 120/208 volt three-phase power? (Preferably something residential-grade and costs less than $1,000....)

Tesla chargers include instructions that say you can directly wire the charger to two of the three phases. None of the other US chargers appear to offer such an option, based on a couple hours of internet searches.

Interestingly, National Electric Code permits RV parks to wire the NEMA 14-50 outlets to two phases of a three-phase service. But it seems this could damage other 240 volt equipment that is not designed to accept two phases that are offset 120 degrees. As such, it appears it would be against code to install such an outlet at my office. Although it does appear this type of wiring is acceptable for power that feeds a transformer, like RVs and possibly EVs, which means maybe the right thing to do is put in a three-phase outlet, then find a dogbone that converts two of those three phases to a NEMA 14-50 receptacle, and plug a regular charger into that.
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Does anybody in the US have any experience with chargers that are available in the US that can be wired to 120/208 volt three-phase power? (Preferably something residential-grade and costs less than $1,000....)

Tesla chargers include instructions that say you can directly wire the charger to two of the three phases. None of the other US chargers appear to offer such an option, based on a couple hours of internet searches.

Interestingly, National Electric Code permits RV parks to wire the NEMA 14-50 outlets to two phases of a three-phase service. But it seems this could damage other 240 volt equipment that is not designed to accept two phases that are offset 120 degrees. As such, it appears it would be against code to install such an outlet at my office. Although it does appear this type of wiring is acceptable for power that feeds a transformer, like RVs and possibly EVs, which means maybe the right thing to do is put in a three-phase outlet, then find a dogbone that converts two of those three phases to a NEMA 14-50 receptacle, and plug a regular charger into that.
There is nothing special about the Tesla chargers which allows them to do this. You should be able to do this with any 240V EV charger... IOW: Its not a "charger" thing, its an "electrical" thing...

If an RV park can do this... and you can plug your EV charger into an RV receptical (which many of us have done)... that should be demonstrable proof this is not an issue.

I believe you can easily create a 240V (or even 120V) circuit from 3-Phase power as long as you only use the appropriate 2 legs of the 3 legs which are provided. Stay away from the "wild/high leg" and just use the other two legs to make your 240V circuit. IOW: Use the two "normal" legs, a neutral, a ground (with proper circuit protection/breaker) and you could make a suitable NEMA 14-50 socket.

Also, You may not need a Neutral wire in the 240V circuit for your EV charger but I would suggest you have it wired in anyway. Having the Neutral Wire in your electrical socket will simply allow you to connect many other devices (i.e. a welder) if you ever want to do so. IOW: If you are going through all the effort to make this 240V circuit, why not include the Neutral in case you want to use it for other things?

More info here

I also understand your question about "phasing" (120 degrees vs 180 degrees) but I'm not sure it matters or is applicable.

You might just be able to use the "wild/high" leg of the 3-phase and a Neutral to make a single phase 208V circuit. I believe most EV chargers would be happy with that as well (despite 208 vs 240)

Legal Disclaimer: I'm not a Licensed Electrician and you should get one involved if you want to do this....
 
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The phasing is critical. If the equipment (e.g. the charger) can't handle the 120 degree phase difference from using two legs of a three phase feed, you will have bad things happen. So I think the question is what EV charging equipment is known to be OK with 120 degree phase offset 240V vs. the normal 180 degree phase offset.

It would be easier to run standard 240V (single phase / 180 deg. offset) to your intended charging spot. I'd be surprised if you didn't also have 240V single phase available, just not convenient.
 

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The phasing is critical. If the equipment (e.g. the charger) can't handle the 120 degree phase difference from using two legs of a three phase feed, you will have bad things happen. So I think the question is what EV charging equipment is known to be OK with 120 degree phase offset 240V vs. the normal 180 degree phase offset.

It would be easier to run standard 240V (single phase / 180 deg. offset) to your intended charging spot. I'd be surprised if you didn't also have 240V single phase available, just not convenient.
Yeah, I get it, but I see far more answers to 208 (3p) -> 240 (2p) queries which don't even mention potential phasing issues. Most of the stuff out there simply indicates bridging two of the three phases to create a "standard" 240v circuit. I wonder why that is?

Yeah, you could probably do a single 208V leg (as I expect most/any EV charger would be OK with this), but I would want to get an electrician involved to see if its actually more useful to make a "standard" 240V socket (with neutral) so you could use it with ANY 240V device...

I would expect any licensed electrician worth their salt would have a definitive answer to this...
 

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*edit*

Removed because I was confusing split 120V vs 208V 3-phase.... more comments below.
 
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Does anybody in the US have any experience with chargers that are available in the US that can be wired to 120/208 volt three-phase power? (Preferably something residential-grade and costs less than $1,000....)
Can you post a photo of the back label of your taycan charger? What does it show on the US variant? In Europe it tells the supported phase system.
 
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Td78

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Can you post a photo of the back label of your taycan charger? What does it show on the US variant? In Europe it tells the supported phase system.
Here is a pic. Thanks everyone for your advice. I may try to call some manufacturers with the hardwire options and will post any good info.

Porsche Taycan US 3-Phase Charging 313FB9C5-45D8-4D9C-831B-B2A9FCDFB945
 

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I'm not sure how the "3-Phase Euro" pigtail would be wired up, but here in the US, even the stuff that's commonly referred to as "2-phase" is often just using the potential difference between 2 wires. (However, unlike most EV chargers we know of, some 240V "2-Phase" devices do also use the Neutral as well...)

IOW: Whether you are measuring the electrical potential (voltage difference) between 2 "hot" wires which are out of phase by 180 degrees - or - the electrical potential between 1 "hot" wire and a neutral wire... You are still simply measuring the voltage difference between 2 wires. Whether one is hot or is a neutral doesn't really matter from the perspective of electrical potential (voltage).

Similarly, this is why single phase 208v (with a neutral) would likely also be a viable candidate...

I have no idea what "3-phase euro" means (or how it would be wired) though...
 


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How many wires is the 3 phase? If there's a neutral, you can grab any phase and use it. If there's no neutral (meaning a delta configuration) then grab any 2. Or just get an appropriate transformer (if you want 240V)

If you are trying to use all 3 phases, then likely just the 3-phase pigtail from europe would probably work. Again, that kinda depends on how the 3 phases are supplied (delta or wye config).
 
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So I don't have possession of the property yet (which makes these questions seem premature - but I like to plan ahead). According to the permits it is a four wire wye system (the three hot 120s and a neutral). I could grab a single phase since I don't need a fast charger here so 120 volts would be fine.

Also, I did call Chargepoint and ask. Their published specs only mention a single phase installation. But the installation video showed the inside of the device, near the hardwire terminals, was labelled 120/208/240. The only way you can get to 208 would be with two wires from a three-phase system, indicating that it should work. Anyways, they told me to call an electrician.

You are all great to provide input. Also am going to call a licensed electrician friend and get his advice.
 

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So I don't have possession of the property yet (which makes these questions seem premature - but I like to plan ahead). According to the permits it is a four wire wye system (the three hot 120s and a neutral). I could grab a single phase since I don't need a fast charger here so 120 volts would be fine.

Also, I did call Chargepoint and ask. Their published specs only mention a single phase installation. But the installation video showed the inside of the device, near the hardwire terminals, was labelled 120/208/240. The only way you can get to 208 would be with two wires from a three-phase system, indicating that it should work. Anyways, they told me to call an electrician.

You are all great to provide input. Also am going to call a licensed electrician friend and get his advice.
Good Luck! ...and I REALLY encourage you to get 208/220/240 sorted out. I think you will be very disappointed trying to charge from a 120V outlet. IMHO: Its strictly an "emergency only" thing...
 

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Good Luck! ...and I REALLY encourage you to get 208/220/240 sorted out. I think you will be very disappointed trying to charge from a 120V outlet. IMHO: Its strictly an "emergency only" thing...
+1 on that. A 4 wire wye is three phases (hot) and a neutral. Potential from any phase to neutral is 120 but that doesn't solve the problem. US 240V is three wires, two hot and a neutral - it's technically two phases (offset by 180 degrees) but no one refers to it as two phase. Either hot to neutral is 120V. Hot to hot is 240V because they are exactly out of phase. It makes it easy, but lots of heavy duty motors want three phases because it's easier for motor control. Normally you get both - just from different transformers, which was way I was suggesting you find out the closest 240V (two phase) panel where you could install a 50A fuse and a dedicated run to your charging location.

And +1 on having an electrician do all this for you.
 

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Does anybody in the US have any experience with chargers that are available in the US that can be wired to 120/208 volt three-phase power? (Preferably something residential-grade and costs less than $1,000....)

Tesla chargers include instructions that say you can directly wire the charger to two of the three phases. None of the other US chargers appear to offer such an option, based on a couple hours of internet searches.

Interestingly, National Electric Code permits RV parks to wire the NEMA 14-50 outlets to two phases of a three-phase service. But it seems this could damage other 240 volt equipment that is not designed to accept two phases that are offset 120 degrees. As such, it appears it would be against code to install such an outlet at my office. Although it does appear this type of wiring is acceptable for power that feeds a transformer, like RVs and possibly EVs, which means maybe the right thing to do is put in a three-phase outlet, then find a dogbone that converts two of those three phases to a NEMA 14-50 receptacle, and plug a regular charger into that.
We have 208v 3 phase in our garage. It charged our Tesla for almost 5 years with the standard Tesla charger. We had no problems charging the batteries.
When we received the Taycan we plugged the charger that came with the Taycan into the same socket that we use to charge the Tesla with. For the last 4 months we have had no problems charging the Taycan with 208v 3 phase power.
 
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We have 208v 3 phase in our garage. It charged our Tesla for almost 5 years with the standard Tesla charger. We had no problems charging the batteries.
When we received the Taycan we plugged the charger that came with the Taycan into the same socket that we use to charge the Tesla with. For the last 4 months we have had no problems charging the Taycan with 208v 3 phase power.
Thanks for the info! Glad to hear that works for you and will now likely be my solution.
 

NC_Taycan

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We have 208v 3 phase in our garage. It charged our Tesla for almost 5 years with the standard Tesla charger. We had no problems charging the batteries.
When we received the Taycan we plugged the charger that came with the Taycan into the same socket that we use to charge the Tesla with. For the last 4 months we have had no problems charging the Taycan with 208v 3 phase power.
Was that with the Porsche Mobile Charger or a different charger? Good info.
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