Taycan Capable of 60 Miles of Charge in 4 Minutes

Discussion in 'General Taycan Topics' started by Tye, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. Tye

    Tye Administrator

    Jul 3, 2018
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    Porsche announced that the Taycan will be able to achieve 60 miles of charge in just four minutes (at peak)!

  2. Series7

    Series7 Active Member

    2018 BMW M550i
    Oct 3, 2018
    New Haven CT
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    Gonna be awesome when the Electrify America charging station network is fully built out to get that 60 mile - 4 minute charge. Will be interesting to see how long it takes to build out 300 highway fast charging stations though.

    Smart of Porsche to focus on charging times and addressing range anxiety. Won't be easy to beat Tesla's 0-60 numbers, and really it's only for bragging rights like Zellmer says. In real world, anything sub 3 seconds is splitting hairs. It's all nausea inducing :)
  3. daveo4EV

    daveo4EV Member

    First Name:
    Tesla(s), 911 GT3, Boxster, Bolt
    Jan 28, 2019
    San jose
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    Software Engineer
    #3 daveo4EV, Jan 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
    One need to be careful about amount of charge provided over time - LiON batteries can only be filled at a maximum rate when the are close to fully discharged. All fast charging capable EVs delivered to date taper the charge rate as the battery fills up. I’m confident the Taycan and other Prosche/Audi 800 volt DC fast charge cars will charge at this rate or higher if they are close to empty - however if one pulls in to a fast charger at say 60% charge I’m fairly confident the charge rate will be significantly less.

    I’ve owned EV’s for over 7 years and used virtually all the fast charging systems - the basic rule of thumb is:

    You can get half the remaining charge in 20 minutes

    Example pull in at 10%

    1. Remaining charge is 90% - that means you’ll get 45% “back/charged” in the next 20 minutes - battery is now at 55%
    2. From 55% remaining charge is 45% - that means you’ll get 22.5% in the next 20 minutes - battery is now at 77%
    3. From 77% remaining charge is 23% - that means you’ll get 11.5% in the next 20 minutes - battery is now at 88.5% call it 90%

    The last 10% of charging a Tesla P100D battery (about 10 kWh) can take over 40 minutes and the fast charging rates actually drop to being slower than L2 rates once the battery is at like 95-97% full (at home when I charge on my garage L2 chargers the charge rate also tapers after about 95% - at 98% the charge rate is about 2,000 watts or less for that last bit of “full”)

    That means to charge from 10% to 90% took one hour - this matches approximate Tesla Supercharging charactertics pretty closely to observed behavior. And while not 100% mathematically accurate - it’s a useful tool for estimating fast charging rates from a given battery SOC percentage - it’s proven highly accurate in my 7 years of road tripping and works for Nissan Leaf’s, Bolts, and Tesla

    The need to taper the charge rate is a universal electro-chemical characteristic of all LiON batteries, so I and the rest of the engineering community would be very very surprised if Porsche/Audi don’t conform to these chemical/physical requirements - there is no magic here.

    The only question is how does Porsche’s 800 volt system change the equation - my guess is that it will change the 20 minute number to about 12 minutes - I.e.you can get 1/2 the remaining charge in about 12 minutes...But that would only be for a 350 kw charger which will be top teir - most CCS DC fast chargers in the US are 50 kW or 150 kW chargers - so there is NO hope of 60 miles range in 4 minutes from those chargers

    I’m excited to see what’s actually going to happen in this space.

    Porsche has said the car is 310 miles on a 90 kW battery - that means they are estimating 3.4 miles / kWh - that’s in line with a Tesla Model S so that makes since.

    Therefore 60 miles range is: 60 / 3.4 = 17.64 kWh required to go 60 miles

    17.64 kWh / 4 min = 4.4 kWh / min or 264 kW charge rate - well within the the 350 kW spec for the 800 volt system - but faster than a 150 kW or 50 kW DC Fast charger can provide.

    310 miles / 60 miles = 5.166 - so you can get 60 miles in about 4 min - and if you do that 5.16 times you’ll fill the 310 mile battery - 4 * 5 = 20 minutes
    310 / 2 = 155 miles is 50% charge
    155 / 60 = 2.5 times = 4 min * 2.5 = 10 minutes to 50% charge capacity @ 60 miles in 4 minutes charge rate

    I’ll stand by my rule of thumb estimate of 50% of remaining charge in 12 minutes
    0-50% - 12 minutes
    50%-75% - 12 minutes
    75%-87% - 12 minutes
    87-95% - 12 minutes

    So my estimate is that to nearly fill a Taycan at a 800 volt system from 0% to about 95% will take about 48 minutes
    But you can get to 80% charge in about 30 minutes - which is really very very good - 80% in 25 minutes is very very fast - 0-50% in about 12 minutes would be awesome (on a summer 2018 trip with my Tesla I got 8-50% in 12 minutes on a 120 kw super charger - I’m confident the 50% mark on a 350 kw charger will be 12 minutes or less - woot!)

    We’ll see how my estimates compare to real world when we can all drive one :)
    Dee likes this.
  4. MarcG

    MarcG Member

    Jan 5, 2019
    San Francisco
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    I’m pretty excited about this ultra fast charging too. My Tesla has been great for road trips but on really long ones that take all day, the repetitive 40+ minute stops get a little too tiresome.

    As for the Taycan, I am looking forward to seeing the final product. I do have my doubts on the 300 mile range though. I don’t think it’s an official figure from Porsche, it was probably just a translation of the 500 km estimate, which is most likely based on the very optimistic NEDC cycle (even WLTP is more optimistic than the EPA cycle).

    If the battery pack is about 90kWh total, at least 5kWh of the pack will be reserved for anti-bricking protection. So you’re down to 85kWh at most. I estimate 3 miles per kWh of efficiency, so we’re probably looking closer to 250 miles of range rather than 300.

    But I can only time will tell. I still think 250 miles would be enough, as long as the 350kW infrastructure is well established and strategically placed along most routes.
    daveo4EV likes this.
  5. Dee

    Dee Well-Known Member

    First Name:
    Dec 14, 2018
    The Netherlands
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    daveo4ev, that's also my experience with charging a 360V battery.
    One major difference is the Taycan's 800V architecture.
    That'll give it twice the charging speed while the current stays the same (P=UxI)
    So, I'm pretty confident that these chargetimes will be shorter but in the end, like you said, it'll drop when passed 70-80%.
    But then again, I'm not in a hurry when I'm doing long trips anyway.

    Grtz Dee.

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