22Kw on board charger question

[Keysersoze]

Hi Guys,

Somewhat confused with the onboard 22kw charger option.

I've specced the 150Kw charger on my GTS, but now questioning wether I should also spec the 22Kw onbaord charger.

Questions are:

I have 3 Phase at work.

Single Phase at home.

Does the 22Kw on board charger eliminate the need for a 22Kw Charger at Work & a 7Kw Charger at home.

At work, I assume with it being onboard, you would simply plug into a 32A Red 3 Phase Socket ? If so do I spec **Supply Cable for Red Industrial Electrical Outlet (400V, 32A, 5 Pin) ** on the configurator?

At home, Like wise I would have a Single Phase 32A Socket ? **What do I need at home**?

TIA

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[GreenHornet]

The 22kW charger option is just that you can charge up to 22kW AC. You would still need a type 2 outlet at home and work.

 

[smartymarti]

I have the 22kw option and bought a Tesla charger for the workshop it allows me to charge the car in 3-4 hours , as Apposed to overnight on a 7kw, although they say the slower the charger the kinder it is to the battery’s

 

[simcity]

Does the 22Kw on board charger eliminate the need for a 22Kw Charger at Work & a 7Kw Charger at home.

You still need a 'charger' at both locations - even though your feeding AC directly into the car's onboard charger - its not as simple as a plain power lead from a commando outlet directly to the car.

The 22kW onboard charger option just allows more AC electricity (where it is available) to be converted into DC to feed into the batteries - its does not eliminate the external AC charger apparatus.

To leverage it ensure that the charging infrastructure you choose at the 3-phase location is capable of delivering at least 22 kW - you will need a 32A 3-phase supply to do that.

 

[W1NGE]

Hi Guys,

Somewhat confused with the onboard 22kw charger option.

I've specced the 150Kw charger on my GTS, but now questioning wether I should also spec the 22Kw onbaord charger.

Questions are:

I have 3 Phase at work.

Single Phase at home.

Does the 22Kw on board charger eliminate the need for a 22Kw Charger at Work & a 7Kw Charger at home.

At work, I assume with it being onboard, you would simply plug into a 32A Red 3 Phase Socket ? If so do I spec **Supply Cable for Red Industrial Electrical Outlet (400V, 32A, 5 Pin) ** on the configurator?

At home, Like wise I would have a Single Phase 32A Socket ? **What do I need at home**?

TIA

Some basics first - the charger is physically in the car - 11kW AC default, 400v 50kW DC standard and 800v 350kW (270kW) DC.

The wall box also known as an EVSE is not a charger and its role is simply to supply the juice to the car. The car then manages the charging based on the supply.

The 400v to 800v 150kW DC booster is an option definitely worth having - BP have deployed 150kW 400v EVSEs (for example) which you can only take full advantage of with this option otherwise you would be limited to around 50kW.

22kW onboard AC charger is optional and due to the cost requires more thought. If you have plenty of DC charging available and generally home charge I would skip it.

Single phase will provide 7.4kW.

If you AC source is based on 3 phase then you will get 11kW with the standard AC onboard charger and if you have the 22kW option then you will take full advantage of that as well.

There is nothing to eliminate here - you need to charge at home and when elsewhere - work or other public charging locations.

You do not need to change the supply cables but first check what the actual arrangements are at your work. Supply relates to the cable connected to the grid and the EVSE - not the car. The EVSE to car cable should be the standard cable supplied with the car - Type 2 (mode 3) and works with all untethered public EVSEs and therefore with your work setup. A photo would help to provide assurance.

A 32A fused supply at home is perfect for connecting your EVSE to. Use the standard supply cable supplied with the car - I can't remember how many pins 3 or 5 - check with your dealer or the manual for the PMC+ (if this is being supplied still). This supply cable will then connect to your 32A 230v receptacle that your electrician should install for you.

 

[Abdul]

Quite a lot on this already OP
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/22kw-onboard-charger-yes-or-no.12969/

 

[simcity]

A 32A fused supply at home is perfect for connecting your EVSE to. Use the standard supply cable supplied with the car - I can't remember how many pins 3 or 5 - check with your dealer or the manual for the PMC+ (if this is being supplied still). This supply cable will then connect to your 32A 230v receptacle that your electrician should install for you.

5 pins. On 3-phase the EVSE will need the earth and neutral to be present.

 

[daveo4EV]

Some basics first - the charger is physically in the car - 11kW AC default, 400v 50kW DC standard and 800v 350kW (270kW) DC.

The wall box also known as an EVSE is not a charger and its role is simply to supply the juice to the car. The car then manages the charging based on the supply.

The 400v to 800v 150kW DC booster is an option definitely worth having - BP have deployed 150kW 400v EVSEs (for example) which you can only take full advantage of with this option otherwise you would be limited to around 50kW.

22kW onboard AC charger is optional and due to the cost requires more thought. If you have plenty of DC charging available and generally home charge I would skip it.

Single phase will provide 7.4kW.

If you AC source is based on 3 phase then you will get 11kW with the standard AC onboard charger and if you have the 22kW option then you will take full advantage of that as well.

There is nothing to eliminate here - you need to charge at home and when elsewhere - work or other public charging locations.

You do not need to change the supply cables but first check what the actual arrangements are at your work. Supply relates to the cable connected to the grid and the EVSE - not the car. The EVSE to car cable should be the standard cable supplied with the car - Type 2 (mode 3) and works with all untethered public EVSEs and therefore with your work setup. A photo would help to provide assurance.

A 32A fused supply at home is perfect for connecting your EVSE to. Use the standard supply cable supplied with the car - I can't remember how many pins 3 or 5 - check with your dealer or the manual for the PMC+ (if this is being supplied still). This supply cable will then connect to your 32A 230v receptacle that your electrician should install for you.

how many times have you and I done this now @W1NGE?

great job on this post BTW!

@Keysersoze listen to @W1NGE this is what you need to know.

 

[W1NGE]

how many times have you and I done this now @W1NGE?

great job on this post BTW!

@Keysersoze listen to @W1NGE this is what you need to know.

Haha - exhausting I know but hey ho we all have to learn!

Thx

 

[Scandinavian]

A 32A fused supply at home is perfect for connecting your EVSE to. Use the standard supply cable supplied with the car - I can't remember how many pins 3 or 5 - check with your dealer or the manual for the PMC+ (if this is being supplied still). This supply cable will then connect to your 32A 230v receptacle that your electrician should install for you.

The red 32 amp 400 volt is 5 pins as standard. That can give you 22 kW if the car is equipped with the 22kWoption (expensive). But that also requires the PMCC and not PMC+ if I remember correctly. PMC+ only could do 9.6 kW? The PMCC can do 3 phase at 32 amp.

So all would work great at work for OP in such case.

However I have no idea if you could install a 32 amp red socket with 5 pins and only use one phase at home. Otherwise OP needs to change the supply cable for a normal blue 3 pin plug at 32 amp for home charging?

I also do not know what the standard supply cable from PMCx (4.5 mete??r) to car is rated at in the UK. In my case the shorter 4.5 meter cable can only handle up to 20 amp 3 phase, while the longer 7.5 meter cable is rated at 32 amps. If those cables from EVSE supplied in the UK are the same as in France, OP would not get the 22 kW charge rate at work with the shorter4.5 meter cable. But here the longer EVSE to car cable is a no cost option. At least my PMCC limits the supply to the car to only 20 amp and most likely only 16 or 17 kW charge rate with 3 phase.

It is nice to have a number of options, but the different combinations can be a bit confusing to what the end result will be.

 

[W1NGE]

The red 32 amp 400 volt is 5 pins as standard. That can give you 22 kW if the car is equipped with the 22kWoption (expensive). But that also requires the PMCC and not PMC+ if I remember correctly. PMC+ only could do 9.6 kW? The PMCC can do 3 phase at 32 amp.

So all would work great at work for OP in such case.

However I have no idea if you could install a 32 amp red socket with 5 pins and only use one phase at home. Otherwise OP needs to change the supply cable for a normal blue 3 pin plug at 32 amp for home charging?

I also do not know what the standard supply cable from PMCx (4.5 mete??r) to car is rated at in the UK. In my case the shorter 4.5 meter cable can only handle up to 20 amp 3 phase, while the longer 7.5 meter cable is rated at 32 amps. If those cables from EVSE supplied in the UK are the same as in France, OP would not get the 22 kW charge rate at work with the shorter4.5 meter cable. But here the longer EVSE to car cable is a no cost option. At least my PMCC limits the supply to the car to only 20 amp and most likely only 16 or 17 kW charge rate with 3 phase.

It is nice to have a number of options, but the different combinations can be a bit confusing to what the end result will be.

I think the OP has 22kW AC at work and so the option of having the 22kW AC onboard charger (budget permitting) may suit their particular use case to ease any anxiety on commuting to / from work. Depending on location, 22kW AC may be the dominant public source of supply (e.g. rural areas) if DC isn't on hand. Single phase at home then still ideal for 7.4kW overnight.

The 'supply cable' is the shorter cable (A) - 0.3m (0.98ft) in length - and connects the EVSE to the electrical supply. The EVSE to car cable (E) is a choice of 4.5m (14.76ft) or 7.5m (24.6ft).

Either EVSE to car cable will support up to 3 phase 400V/ 32A.

I have the PMCC on a single phase supply with the 7.5m cable and have it set to 32A to guarantee my 7.4kW.

 

[Keysersoze]

I think the OP has 22kW AC at work and so the option of having the 22kW AC onboard charger (budget permitting) may suit their particular use case to ease any anxiety on commuting to / from work. Depending on location, 22kW AC may be the dominant public source of supply (e.g. rural areas) if DC isn't on hand. Single phase at home then still ideal for 7.4kW overnight.

The 'supply cable' is the shorter cable (A) - 0.3m (0.98ft) in length - and connects the EVSE to the electrical supply. The EVSE to car cable (E) is a choice of 4.5m (14.76ft) or 7.5m (24.6ft).

Either EVSE to car cable will support up to 3 phase 400V/ 32A.

I have the PMCC on a single phase supply with the 7.5m cable and have it set to 32A to guarantee my 7.4kW.

Hi W1NGE,

Many thanks for the replies

My GTS order now locked with the following

150kw on board
22kw on board
Supply Cable for Red Industrial Electrical Outlet (400V, 32A, 5 Pin)

PPKXZ3X1

http://www.porsche-code.com/PPKXZ3X1

Work 32A 3phase N & E Red Socket 22Kw
Home 32A L, N & E Blue Socket 7.3Kw

But was thinking of simply having a 32A Red 3 phase socket at home instead of the blue socket and connecting L1 N & E or does the charging system sense voltage differential with 2 phases omitted ? Allowing me to use the same cable for both home and work ?

Have I missed anything or need anything else ?

 

[W1NGE]

Hi W1NGE,

Many thanks for the replies

My GTS order now locked with the following

150kw on board
22kw on board
Supply Cable for Red Industrial Electrical Outlet (400V, 32A, 5 Pin)

PPKXZ3X1

http://www.porsche-code.com/PPKXZ3X1

Work 32A 3phase N & E Red Socket 22Kw
Home 32A L, N & E Blue Socket 7.3Kw

But was thinking of simply having a 32A Red 3 phase socket at home instead of the blue socket and connecting L1 N & E or does the charging system sense voltage differential with 2 phases omitted ? Allowing me to use the same cable for both home and work ?

Have I missed anything or need anything else ?

That's good news.

A couple of things to check / consider:

1. Have you checked the connection requirement at your work location and that it is a 5 PIN receptacle?

2. At your work location do you connect your own personal EVSE to the red socket / receptacle?

3. Standard supply cables supplied with the PMC+ are a) 3 PIN 13A plug, and b) Blue 32A 3 pin. For the life of me I can't remember if it is 3 pin or 5 pin - I suspect it will be 3 PIN but please get this verified with your dealer (their demo car should have an EVSE in the boot with all cables).

4. If you select the red connector on the configurator I think this substitutes the standard blue and so is not in addition. This means that you will need another connector.

I'm tempted to suggest you stick with the standard cabling which comes with the PMC+ (or PMCC) as this will 100% fit with your home setup. For your workplace scenario and if you have to use your own EVSE and then connect to a RED commando receptacle then you will need to source this cable in addition.

As you can tell I'm absolutely no electrician but if the red 5 pin receptacle can be installed at home and the same one used at your work location then no need to worry about changing supply cables on your EVSE depending on whether you are at home or at work as the same one will work at either location.

Clearly you want to keep this simple and so a single supply cable will save a lot of faff as it has to be unscrewed from the EVSE to change.

Seems a pity that your work location doesn't provide an EVSE / wallbox where you can simply just plug in your EVSE Public to Car cable (Level 2, mode 3) rather than have to transport your EVSE (and all the cables) with you all the time.

Unfortunately I can't answer your question re red vs blue at home - ask an electrician but I think this would simplify your set up for the reasons above.

 

[Scandinavian]

I agree with you overall, as long as the OP does not expect to achieve 22 kW charging at work with the PMC (only giving max 11 kW I think).

On the other hand it seems there is a stop on delivering even the PMC+ at the moment due to regulations in the UK??

I think the OP has 22kW AC at work and so the option of having the 22kW AC onboard charger (budget permitting) may suit their particular use case to ease any anxiety on commuting to / from work. Depending on location, 22kW AC may be the dominant public source of supply (e.g. rural areas) if DC isn't on hand. Single phase at home then still ideal for 7.4kW overnight.

 

[W1NGE]

I agree with you overall, as long as the OP does not expect to achieve 22 kW charging at work with the PMC (only giving max 11 kW I think).

On the other hand it seems there is a stop on delivering even the PMC+ at the moment due to regulations in the UK??

I think he realises the limitation but to get 11kW (9.6kW) from his office location will be better than 7.4kW.

He's elected to get the 22kW AC onboard charger in any case which, EVSE and supply depending, should cover all home, work and public locations.

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