Burmeister Audio Settings / Tuning

Vim Schrotnock

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If you could feel the difference in vibration from the armrest then you didn’t level match the two sources. iTunes is known to have taken a stance against loudness wars that have decreased dynamic range. This may have changed but Tidal used LUFS of -14 which is +2 dB from reference.

E.g. “Subjective listeners will always (unless the louder one is absolutely foul) prefer the louder source. I can't begin to count the number of high-end source components whose output levels were ever-so-slightly higher than their specification - their creators knew that would make them sound better in an unmatched level comparison.”
https://audiophilereview.com/audiophile/what-is-a-valid-listening-test.html

Tbc most of my library is lossless but there’s no way it makes that difference.
I recognized the increased volume adjusted the volume to equal levels. The Tidal was much tighter and focused in the bass, and that's what I was referring to, in terms of feel, not the amplitude.
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I recognized the increased volume adjusted the volume to equal levels. The Tidal was much tighter and focused in the bass, and that's what I was referring to, in terms of feel, not the amplitude.
This isn't a streaming answer but I use the Onkyo HF player on my phone and loaded up 128kbps, 256kbps, & lossless versions of the same song to test - my favorites are Someone Like You by Adele & Lie in our Graves by Dave Matthews band. Or you could use Tom's Diner, which is the track they used to design the 256kbps compression, with the goal of not being able to tell the difference between that and lossless.

In my Macan with Bose with the engine off, I can tell a significant difference between 128kbps & lossless and small differences between 256kbps and lossless. With the engine running, I can't spot any difference even if I'm trying hard to find them.

There's a lot of factors in play:
1. All iTunes is not equal. If you have older files from iTunes, they may be 128kbps or even worse. It was only a few years ago that Apple decided to start carrying about quality as 4G became ubiquitous & larger downloads became less of a problem.
2. You're using the DAC of the head unit if you're plugged into USB & using the iPod source. I'm sure the Burm has a higher quality DAC than Bose & it makes a big difference regardless of source.
3. If you use the headphone/aux input you're using the DAC of the phone, which is lousy. The flip side is that I've gotten great results with an Oppo standalone DAC into the AUX port. But you lose the on-screen album art, etc., it's a pain, and then Apple killed the headphone jack.

Tidal is the best streaming service to get high quality source material for non-orchestral music. Definitely a good place to start. Make sure you're signed up for the HiFi tier or you're not getting the service's main benefit. Test directly against the built-in Apple Music app, which may provide better quality than running it from your phone. Then go with what sounds good to you because that's what matters.

FWIW I have audio technical expertise but studied violin at a fancy conservatory for my whole childhood so I'm cursed with very discrening ears. Since there's no engine to listen to, Burmester seems like less of an excessive indulgence on the Taycan than it would in an ICE car.
 

Vim Schrotnock

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Thanks for the replies, and it looks like this is a rapidly evolving area. I'll continue doing research and posting on streaming services to use with the Burmester or Bose (which I agree is the best sounding Bose of any car I've been in). Here's a review link from a well respected group. There's always tradeoffs in terms of audio quality/usability/selection etc.

https://www.whathifi.com/us/best-buys/streaming/best-music-streaming-services
 

evanevery

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Thanks for the replies, and it looks like this is a rapidly evolving area. I'll continue doing research and posting on streaming services to use with the Burmester or Bose (which I agree is the best sounding Bose of any car I've been in). Here's a review link from a well respected group. There's always tradeoffs in terms of audio quality/usability/selection etc.

https://www.whathifi.com/us/best-buys/streaming/best-music-streaming-services
Rip your music to lossless FLAC Files (not MP3's) and you will hear a huge difference in quality with a nice system like the Burmester. You can store/manage/access your tunes right off a very small $40 256GB USB-C Thumb drive. (There is another thread here where we are discussing the limitations of the PCM to handle large amounts of files.)

Be aware, that there are very few smartphones that are natively capable of streaming HiRes audio at its full resolution. ...and the iPhone is NOT one of them IOW: Just because your phone can PLAY from a streaming service like Qubuz or Tidal, doesn't mean its actually delivering those files at full resolution.

Generally, if you are using a SmartPhone to stream HiRes services like Quobuz or Tidal, then you will need an external DAC (like the Dragonfly) plugged into your phone to get the full resolution. However, these external DAC's provide analog audio output and the Taycan (like most modern cars) has no provision to accept that type of input.

The simplest way to deliver your Burmester high quality audio is by feeding the system directly from files stored on a USB device. This way, you know exactly what is going into the system...

...on the other side, we still don't know what the DAC in the Burmester is capable of. I sent them a request a couple of weeks ago and they have not replied. It would be very sad if the Burmester DAC was not itself capable of delivering hires resolution...

This is easy to demonstrate. Pick one of your favorite tunes on an audio CD. Something with a lot of dynamic range. Rip it to MP3 and then also rip it to lossless FLAC. Put both files on a small USB Thumb drive and then listen to each side-by-side in your car to compare the results...
 
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Vim Schrotnock

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Rip your music to lossless FLAC Files (not MP3's) and you will hear a huge difference in quality with a nice system like the Burmester. You can store/manage/access your tunes right off a very small $40 256GB USB-C Thumb drive. (There is another thread here where we are discussing the limitations of the PCM to handle large amounts of files.)

Be aware, that there are very few smartphones that are natively capable of streaming HiRes audio at its full resolution. ...and the iPhone is NOT one of them IOW: Just because your phone can PLAY from a streaming service like Qubuz or Tidal, doesn't mean its actually delivering those files at full resolution.

Generally, if you are using a SmartPhone to stream HiRes services like Quobuz or Tidal, then you will need an external DAC (like the Dragonfly) plugged into your phone to get the full resolution. However, these external DAC's provide analog audio output and the Taycan (like most modern cars) has no provision to accept that type of input.

The simplest way to deliver your Burmester high quality audio is by feeding the system directly from files stored on a USB device. This way, you know exactly what is going into the system...

...on the other side, we still don't know what the DAC in the Burmester is capable of. I sent them a request a couple of weeks ago and they have not replied. It would be very sad if the Burmester DAC was not itself capable of delivering hires resolution...

This is easy to demonstrate. Pick one of your favorite tunes on an audio CD. Something with a lot of dynamic range. Rip it to MP3 and then also rip it to lossless FLAC. Put both files on a small USB Thumb drive and then listen to each side-by-side in your car to compare the results...
Thanks for the info - very helpful and keep us posted on your DAC compatibility. As you and a number of reviews have stated:

Similarly, the iOS and Android apps can only complete the first 'unfold' of MQA file decoding, outputting streams at a maximum of 24-bit/96kHz. The only way to entirely unpackage an MQA file for playback, and therefore give you a more accurate representation of the file based on your system characteristics, is by pairing your Apple or Android device with an MQA-compatible DAC, taking the decoding process away from the software (Tidal app).

Where I'm at right now, is Tidal seems to be the best app for phone streaming (still WAY better than standard iTunes), but no phone app can get you to the full 192 kHz. I'll be interested to try both and see if I can tell the difference.
 

evanevery

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Thanks for the info - very helpful and keep us posted on your DAC compatibility. As you and a number of reviews have stated:

Similarly, the iOS and Android apps can only complete the first 'unfold' of MQA file decoding, outputting streams at a maximum of 24-bit/96kHz. The only way to entirely unpackage an MQA file for playback, and therefore give you a more accurate representation of the file based on your system characteristics, is by pairing your Apple or Android device with an MQA-compatible DAC, taking the decoding process away from the software (Tidal app).

Where I'm at right now, is Tidal seems to be the best app for phone streaming (still WAY better than standard iTunes), but no phone app can get you to the full 192 kHz. I'll be interested to try both and see if I can tell the difference.
There actually are a couple of Android phones which CAN provide HiRes audio natively. Most notably, the LG V20. I believe it is fully capable of 192 kHz / 32-bit...

https://www.maketecheasier.com/turn-android-phone-into-hi-res-audio-player/

I do have a couple of DAC's that use with my Android Note 10+. I currently use a DragonFly Red (which has a resolution indicator - but requires a USB-C adapter) and a Nextdrive Spectra X (which is a more convenient packaging as it is an inline USB-C DAC - But it has no resolution indicator).

However, you can't use ANY external DAC with the Porsche PCM as it does not have an analog input. (Most cars don't). We will be at the mercy of the Burmester's DAC even if we feed it "unprocessed" HiRes music files directly from USB. ...and there is no indicator to show what resolution its currently providing! :-(

Please drop Burmester a query as well. Maybe one of us will get a response!

In any case, the Burmester sounds great in our already astoundingly quiet car!
 

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I suggest Tidal too. Yea as evanevery suggested, try ripping Tidal to FLAC in lossless quality and put it in a USB for your Porsche PCM.
As for external DACs, I have FiiO K3 and Zorloo Ztella (MQA Version) for Tidal with my iPhone. They are both pretty good DACs at an affordable price, about $100.
 


Vim Schrotnock

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There actually are a couple of Android phones which CAN provide HiRes audio natively. Most notably, the LG V20. I believe it is fully capable of 192 kHz / 32-bit...

https://www.maketecheasier.com/turn-android-phone-into-hi-res-audio-player/

I do have a couple of DAC's that use with my Android Note 10+. I currently use a DragonFly Red (which has a resolution indicator - but requires a USB-C adapter) and a Nextdrive Spectra X (which is a more convenient packaging as it is an inline USB-C DAC - But it has no resolution indicator).

However, you can't use ANY external DAC with the Porsche PCM as it does not have an analog input. (Most cars don't). We will be at the mercy of the Burmester's DAC even if we feed it "unprocessed" HiRes music files directly from USB. ...and there is no indicator to show what resolution its currently providing! :-(

Please drop Burmester a query as well. Maybe one of us will get a response!

In any case, the Burmester sounds great in our already astoundingly quiet car!
Ok, so if I have a FLAC file on a flash drive USB set for 96kHz 24 bit is there a question whether the Burmester input can handle this? I have a high quality home system with a USB front plug-in, and it sounds magnificent. (I do not say very high quality because some people have spent the price of middle-income homes on these systems...)
 

evanevery

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Ok, so if I have a FLAC file on a flash drive USB set for 96kHz 24 bit is there a question whether the Burmester input can handle this? I have a high quality home system with a USB front plug-in, and it sounds magnificent. (I do not say very high quality because some people have spent the price of middle-income homes on these systems...)
I'm feeding FLAC's to the Burmester via the USB connection. I have about 7500 files like this. Its not a question if the Burmester can handle them. The question is: What is it doing with them? Burmester needs to give us the specs on their DAC so we know what it is capable of...

Just because you feed something a HiRes Audio File (or streams Tidal or Qobuz), and it "plays", it doesn't mean its providing you the original resolution of the file/stream. The iPhone is a perfect example of this... Tidal will tell you its playing an "MQA" quality stream, but thats NOT what you are hearing. This is why its nice to have a DAC (like the Dragonfly) which actually gives you indication of the resolution which is being delivered.
 

Vim Schrotnock

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I'm feeding FLAC's to the Burmester via the USB connection. I have about 7500 files like this. Its not a question if the Burmester can handle them. The question is: What is it doing with them? Burmester needs to give us the specs on their DAC so we know what it is capable of...

Just because you feed something a HiRes Audio File (or streams Tidal or Qobuz), and it "plays", it doesn't mean its providing you the original resolution of the file/stream. The iPhone is a perfect example of this... Tidal will tell you its playing an "MQA" quality stream, but thats NOT what you are hearing. This is why its nice to have a DAC (like the Dragonfly) which actually gives you indication of the resolution which is being delivered.
Absolutely - how can we get the DAC specs??
 

evanevery

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I provided this link in one of my posts above: Contact Burmester

I dropped them a message a couple of weeks ago and have not gotten a response...

I'm GUESSING the DAC is in the Burmester AMP itself. If its in the PCM Module then I expect it won't be "very exceptional"...
 

Vim Schrotnock

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I provided this link in one of my posts above: Contact Burmester

I dropped them a message a couple of weeks ago and have not gotten a response...

I'm GUESSING the DAC is in the Burmester AMP itself. If its in the PCM Module then I expect it won't be "very exceptional"...
Yes - there's a story somewhere about Burmester himself designing a DAC or something like that. :fingerscrossed: Can't wait to try it out.
 

glennkreisel

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I am an 'audiophile' in the sense that I love music, especially when it is played through a very high quality system. My hearing is not terrific, so if I can hear a significant difference between systems, it is probably big.

I just downloaded the 'Tidal' app for my iPhone, and expect to receive my Taycan with Burmester in a few weeks. I wanted to see if there really was a noticeable difference for me between the Tidal and my standard iTunes music that I've downloaded over the years.

I really liked the Tidal setup for playlists. You pick out a particular genre, and they display artists, and you pick the ones you like. The display continues to show artists dependent upon your pics, and you can load hundreds of artists for a playlist this way. Then I compared the same songs played on Tidal and iTunes using my iPhone connected to my USB port in my Panamera Bose system. The difference was immediately apparent to me. I had a setup so I could switch back and forth between iTunes and Tidal quickly for the same section of the same tune. Way more range, clarity, separation and tightness of the bass with the 'lossless' Tidal tunes. I could actually feel the difference in terms of vibration of the armrest. I'm very excited to see how this sounds with the Burmester.

Anyone else have any opinions/suggestions on 'lossless' HD streaming music apps and their compatibility with the Taycan Burmester?
I have noticed recently a huge improvement from bluetooth to usbc cable. Quality gets much better on Burmester.
 

Vim Schrotnock

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OK, I took a USB with some FLAC files to the dealer to trade-in my Panamera. I was able to play the same files on both the Burmester and Bose systems. First of all, the Bose in the Taycan is the best Bose system I've ever heard in a car.

But. The Burmester is just mind boggling. I cannot believe the quality, clarity, depth, range and complete lack of distortion. For any of you who have ordered the Burmester, and who really enjoy high quality stereo, you will be delighted.
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