DC vs. AC Charging

KerbMonster

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I’d assume that 5kWh is reserved at the top, and 5kWh at the bottom. (Not based on facts, purely an assumption of: 0% is death for a battery, and long term storage at 100% isn’t recommended.)
I think in general the bottom buffer is slightly bigger as you are very much correct that too close to zero is instant battery death. Some Tesla roadster owners had a nasty shock when leaving their cars at the airport for 2 weeks and coming back to a dead car a $30k bill not covered by warranty...

Todays cars are very different beasts and it's highly unlikely to happen even if you left your car for a long time. the parasitic losses are just so low now and the battery packs are good and shutting down to protect themselves as the charge drops.

Also for avoidance of doubt, I'm not saying you should charge to 100% every time and I'm guessing for 95% of drives the 85% recommended is more than enough.
But on the flip side, people shouldn't be frightened, worried or stressed out if they do decide to charge to 100% that the battery will be instantly damaged.
To me it's no different to hitting the rev limit in a ICE car... Now and then is fine but you wouldn't want to do it all the time (unless it's a rental car then all bets are off).
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feye

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I hope your right and the battery will last, but if you do have a problem with the power pack, then good luck claiming on the warranty when you have not followed the instructions provided. They will wriggle out of that easily by checking the logs. But I do understand your methodology, I'm just more cautious.
Yes, good point. But then I would argue, Prosche made a lot of design decisions to make ICE Porsche owners happy, but then exclude "fill it up and enjoy the ride"? I will use this car properly and will not treat it like a raw egg.
 

PanameraFrank

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You can charge the car to 100% indicated charge. It will not affect your warranty.

There is a percentage of the battery you cannot access, so you can never actually charge to true 100%. Porsche is also not going to deny a battery warranty claim because of the way/percent you charged, they'd get sued & their reputation destroyed.
 
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ron_b

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I know the manual however recommending 85% day to day is a world away from

That is just scaremongering.
the turbo s battery pack is 93.4 kWh with 83.7kwh - so full charge wont even go to 90%.
I do agree that reviewing the 2019 videos that the Taycan charged quickly to 100%, less than 1hr from 1% to 100% by Alex on Autos. But then reviewing 2020 videos I see a much longer charge time to 100% and more range. I believe that the reservation has been reduced significantly after more testing. I feel that the battery is now 89 to 90kWh usable capacity.

For daily driving I would plan for 85% SoC and only bring it back to that level when it's at 50% or so which maybe a couple days depending on the commute.

When doing road trips you want to Target 65 to 85% charge as that will be the fastest and only charged beyond that if required to reach another DCFC. in addition you really want to charge to a level that will land you at the targeted next stop with between 5 & 10% SoC depending on your confidence in the charging Network. Being below 10% will allow you to see the 250 to 270 kilowatt charging rate.

Before starting a road trip I would set the home charger to have the car at 100% by your planned departure time thus giving you a maximum distance on the first leg. This is how I road trip with my Chevy Bolt EV now, and what I plan to do with the Taycan 4S.
 

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I do agree that reviewing the 2019 videos that the Taycan charged quickly to 100%, less than 1hr from 1% to 100% by Alex on Autos. But then reviewing 2020 videos I see a much longer charge time to 100% and more range. I believe that the reservation has been reduced significantly after more testing. I feel that the battery is now 89 to 90kWh usable capacity.

For daily driving I would plan for 85% SoC and only bring it back to that level when it's at 50% or so which maybe a couple days depending on the commute.

When doing road trips you want to Target 65 to 85% charge as that will be the fastest and only charged beyond that if required to reach another DCFC. in addition you really want to charge to a level that will land you at the targeted next stop with between 5 & 10% SoC depending on your confidence in the charging Network. Being below 10% will allow you to see the 250 to 270 kilowatt charging rate.

Before starting a road trip I would set the home charger to have the car at 100% by your planned departure time thus giving you a maximum distance on the first leg. This is how I road trip with my Chevy Bolt EV now, and what I plan to do with the Taycan 4S.
Completely agree, 85% for daily use, 100% for the road trip, depending on anticipated SOC at next charging stop. Makes complete sense to me.
 


Scandinavian

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Completely agree, 85% for daily use, 100% for the road trip, depending on anticipated SOC at next charging stop. Makes complete sense to me.
I agree with you and Ron. I would charge as Ron has outlined in his post. In most cases it will be sufficient while driving on a daily basis.

Until somebody can get into the BMS and actually see the charge level and voltages on a cell level in the Taycan, I think it is wise to listen to the recommendation. I fully understand the argument about the extra reserve that Porsche has built in to the battery and the management system. Until we can se that the margin is built in on a cell level and not only on the total battery, it seems a sensible approach. The difference of the last 15% of charge level does not make or break it in daily driving IMHO.

A feature I miss much more in the Taycan is to be able to set a charge level at lower that full charge, while charging at a DCFC. Say you are plugging in and start charging and go for a coffee and a biological break. If that takes longer than expected I might not want a charge level above 85% anyhow. I can not understand why the overall charging settings are made so complicated in the Taycan. And yet not logical.
 

feye

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I agree with you and Ron. I would charge as Ron has outlined in his post. In most cases it will be sufficient while driving on a daily basis.

Until somebody can get into the BMS and actually see the charge level and voltages on a cell level in the Taycan, I think it is wise to listen to the recommendation.
I just want to use the car and let the the Porsche engineers worry about this. My math goes like this. I will own the car for about 5 years, and in average charge it less than twice a week from a SOC of about 30-50%. That gives me about 100 charges per year and 500 in total. Degradation on this usage profile should be next to nothing. Perhaps after a year, I will drop by my local dealer and ask him to check via OBD the actual capacity to check the degradation.

Btw Toyota just offered a battery warranty for 1 million km or 10 years.
 

Singularity

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I personally don't see why I wouldn't follow the 85% recommendation as it has literally no negative consequences of any sort, and can have positive consequences in the fact that the battery life may be better. I set up an 85% default profile on day 1 and started using it. When going on a longer trip I simply bypass the profiles and charge to 100%.

For my normal city driving the 85% charge is plenty for quite a while so this literally is of zero negative consequence.
 


Reg

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the turbo s battery pack is 93.4 kWh with 83.7kwh - so full charge wont even go to 90%.
I am not sure how this works.

When they say 100% is it charged to 93.4 or 83.7 or some number in between (so there is a buffer on the bottom so the battery never gets to 0%)?

Has anyone tested what a 100% full charge is?
 

feye

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I personally don't see why I wouldn't follow the 85% recommendation as it has literally no negative consequences of any sort, and can have positive consequences in the fact that the battery life may be better. I set up an 85% default profile on day 1 and started using it. When going on a longer trip I simply bypass the profiles and charge to 100%.

For my normal city driving the 85% charge is plenty for quite a while so this literally is of zero negative consequence.
Sure, but not what I expect from the car, from Prosche, from the money I spend. I don't want to play around. I stick it in the evening, and I drive it in the morning, long or short, does not matter. This dancing around the battery is one reason why ICE drivers think EVs are shite. Let's see if they are right!
 

feye

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I am not sure how this works.

When they say 100% is it charged to 93.4 or 83.7 or some number in between (so there is a buffer on the bottom so the battery never gets to 0%)?
Porsche Taycan DC vs. AC Charging 1594954614512
This was tested in Germany. The car shows SoC as the net capacity of the battery which should be 83.7 kWh. The real number might be higher. Either Porsche already decreased the buffer or the actual gross capacity of the battery is larger than 93.4 kWh.

Anyway, the buffer is managed by Porsche via car software. This should no be of any concern to the customer. I even don't know why they even put the gross number in the specification.
 
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evanevery

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I'm currently on my 3rd EV and anxiously waiting for my 4th (Turbo S). We've always just left the Model-X plugged in overnight (EVERY night) with a 90% charge limit. I do the same for my BMW i8 (the PHEV battery in the i8 always charges to 100%). Occasionally, when a short trip is required, I charge the Tesla to 100%. No way I'm dicking around with charging profiles on a more intricate basis. (This should also help mitigate the current "12V battery issue" I think). I have no problem just setting the Taycan to 85% and then only bumping it on rare occasions when I need more. The car is supposed to work for ME - not vice-versa.

That being said, anyone have solid reference to documentation which specifically recommends the 85% daily target?

Additionally, Tesla's credo has always been that "A plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla". They specifically recommend just plugging it in when not in use. The onboard software takes care of the rest. Is this NOT the case with the Taycan? That would be very unfortunate. Simply plugging in an EV when you get home at night and then unplugging it in the morning is one of the very major convenience factors for the platform. ANY/EVERY/ALL time the Model-X is in the garage its on the charger. No way I'm playing guessing games of how much charge I will need for the next day. That's an incredibly stupid model. (UNLESS, of course, if you can't charge at home...)

I ***WILL*** be charging my car just like I charge my cell phone. Its up to Porsche to make sure that works properly.
 
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evanevery

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Here's my charging model. Its very complicated:

- Set the default Charge Level to %85
- Plug in the car whenever its in the garage

(done)

* Temporarily boost the Charge Level to %100 on the very rare occasion I have a long trip in the morning.
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