Do we think “Active Suspension” will make it into all models?

[MissionE]

For those unfamiliar with the new system

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[WuffvonTrips]

Notable that Porsche said that it reduces roll compared even with PDCC and the difference was noted by the authors who tested both systems (but in a Hybrid, not full EV, so maybe the Taycan's PDCC is more effective).
If it is available, I'd assume it'll only be as a cost option (as is PDCC even on a Taycan Turbo S).

 

[f1eng]

For those unfamiliar with the new system

I was the inventor of the Williams Active suspension and developed it from concept to winning its fiirst race, Italian GP at Monza in 1987 with Nelson Piquet.
Its entire objective was to stabilise and optimise under-floor aerodynamics. It did improve ride a bit maybe but that hadn't been my objective or a principle intention.

In 1993 as chief engineer at Benetton I was involved in optimising their completely different system which has been originally conceived to minimise wheel load fluctuation (more mechanical grip) but without considering the aero benefits as much, in fact the originator engineer there, who was a chassis specialist, didn't believe it would be much aero gain until I demonstrated it to him at Silverstone and unfortunately it hadn't been conceived with aero optimisation in mind so was conceptually incapoable of being as good as the Williams system for aero.
To put it in perspective the improvement in optimising wheel load fluctuation over the then current spring damper system was around 0.1 to 0.2 secs per lap, the gain by optimising the aero platform was 1.7 secs per lap.

Back then it was tested widely on road cars but the upcost was never considered worth the tiny improvement.

I doubt any road car gets much aero from the underside at practical ride heights, too much side leakage, so if active is a gain it will be lowering the car a lot, optimising rake and eliminating roll to make the underside contribution bigger.

I am sceptical it would be effectively worthwhile on a road, but it will sell because it exists - I bought PDCC after all

Seeing the video of the car moving about amused me. Our system at Williams did a similar dance as part of bleeding the hydraulics. Nigel Mansell, who had refused to drive it until Nelson won a race then it was "where's mine?" which was a massive effort since he had insisted he would never drive it. We had then to make a special chassis in 2 weeks. His mechanics were knackered and put the bleed procedure on whilst he was in it because he was so ungrateful and to piss him off.

Of course ironically Nige would never have been World Champion without the active system and the aero it permitted yet he was the driver who contributed least to its original development...

 

[RAHRCR]

I would expect this new system would only be available on “big brother” for now. It appears that the car is designed around this. As an owner of a PDCC equipped Taycan, I find it intriguing that there could be a next level of performance & comfort suspension tuning. I would want to try this one before buying. PDCC is barely noticeable for the most part…which makes it good. It seems that this system requires a bit of retuning of the brain. Very interesting.

 

[Murph7355]

I was the inventor of the Williams Active suspension and developed it from concept to winning its fiirst race, Italian GP at Monza in 1987 with Nelson Piquet.
Its entire objective was to stabilise and optimise under-floor aerodynamics. It did improve ride a bit maybe but that hadn't been my objective or a principle intention.

In 1993 as chief engineer at Benetton I was involved in optimising their completely different system which has been originally conceived to minimise wheel load fluctuation (more mechanical grip) but without considering the aero benefits as much, in fact the originator engineer there, who was a chassis specialist, didn't believe it would be much aero gain until I demonstrated it to him at Silverstone and unfortunately it hadn't been conceived with aero optimisation in mind so was conceptually incapoable of being as good as the Williams system for aero.
To put it in perspective the improvement in optimising wheel load fluctuation over the then current spring damper system was around 0.1 to 0.2 secs per lap, the gain by optimising the aero platform was 1.7 secs per lap.

Back then it was tested widely on road cars but the upcost was never considered worth the tiny improvement.

I doubt any road car gets much aero from the underside at practical ride heights, too much side leakage, so if active is a gain it will be lowering the car a lot, optimising rake and eliminating roll to make the underside contribution bigger.

I am sceptical it would be effectively worthwhile on a road, but it will sell because it exists - I bought PDCC after all

Seeing the video of the car moving about amused me. Our system at Williams did a similar dance as part of bleeding the hydraulics. Nigel Mansell, who had refused to drive it until Nelson won a race then it was "where's mine?" which was a massive effort since he had insisted he would never drive it. We had then to make a special chassis in 2 weeks. His mechanics were knackered and put the bleed procedure on whilst he was in it because he was so ungrateful and to piss him off.

Of course ironically Nige would never have been World Champion without the active system and the aero it permitted yet he was the driver who contributed least to its original development...

Nothing to add other than you and the whole Williams team were hero figures for me as my love of F1 peaked through the mid-80s to mid-90s.

I lapped every piece of detail up and most things came second fiddle to avid watching over race weekend.

 

[AllanG]

Many thanks, Frank, for this very interesting information, and I always love reading about your F1 career experiences…….though it does appear that Nige may not have been one of your favourite drivers!

Nelson Pique was my favourite driver of that era

 

[f1eng]

Many thanks, Frank, for this very interesting information, and I always love reading about your F1 career experiences…….though it does appear that Nige may not have been one of your favourite drivers!

Nelson Pique was my favourite driver of that era

Nige was strange. He used to stay with us and be rolling around on the floor playing with my children but for some reason he decided latterly I was favouring Nelson, which certainly wasn’t true as far as racing was concerned, I didn’t care which car won as long as the other was second. It was as far as active was concerned though since Nige refused to drive it under any circumstances. Once I wanted to test something and Nige was in England but Nelson was visiting his Mum in Brazilia but he still wouldn’t do it. Nelson flew to England, tested at Silverstone then flew back with no complaint.
He did wind Nige up as much as he could though which was a laugh for all of us.
Anyway by the time Nigel did well for Williams I had moved on and I have nothing but poor associations with him after our last season working together.

He wasn’t popular with the team at all either since he never admitted to his mistakes and wasn’t generous to his mechanics..

Anyway time gone now and I am fairly sceptical active suspension offers a genuine gain for a driver on the road but track almost certainly.

 

[bluesky]

There was that odd bit about the ability of the system to make the car “lean into corners”, which brings to mind images of Ariel Atom and of course motorcycles. Is there any benefit to such a thing? That certainly runs contrary to most non-active suspension design on vehicles I’ve had where the body roll to the outside of the turn compresses that side resulting in the suspension increasing camber to improve grip on that side to help resist the lateral G force.

 

[MissionE]

Notable that Porsche said that it reduces roll compared even with PDCC and the difference was noted by the authors who tested both systems (but in a Hybrid, not full EV, so maybe the Taycan's PDCC is more effective).
If it is available, I'd assume it'll only be as a cost option (as is PDCC even on a Taycan Turbo S).

Yeah assuming weight would be a concern as well. Afaik they haven’t released the weight specs on the new system.

 

[MissionE]

There was that odd bit about the ability of the system to make the car “lean into corners”, which brings to mind images of Ariel Atom and of course motorcycles. Is there any benefit to such a thing? That certainly runs contrary to most non-active suspension design on vehicles I’ve had where the body roll to the outside of the turn compresses that side resulting in the suspension increasing camber to improve grip on that side to help resist the lateral G force.

It isn’t the point to be in tune with your car, not isolated from it

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