PMCC certificate error - any ideas?

[WalterG]

Thought I'd see if the collective wisdom of this group has any bright ideas for this PMCC issue. I am tempted to replace it as most experts here recommend but truth is it's operated ok for me and it just hasn't been bad enough for me to toss it. I've had it since Sept 2020, used the Hubbell outlet, and never had a problem with overheating. With the latest update (3014) have adjusted the current back to 40A and turned off the sleep-mode so it doesn't keep resetting.

Anyway, the PMCC is displaying a message that the certificate has expired. After clicking out of that screen, then it displays a message that there has been a server authentication error. And my app shows a "Charging Error". Despite all this my Taycan charges fine from the PMCC - the General Profile works fine, and the timers work fine. It's just slightly annoying and disconcerting to see the "Charging Error" message in the app and the messages about the certificate on the PMCC. I found the Certificate Error thread here, and what worked for everyone there was to do a software update - but my PMCC has the latest software so that's not an option. Any bright ideas?

 

[daveo4EV]

this is a new one for me…and doesn't help the PMCC's case in my opinion.

I think the screen shot that suggest if the error persists to contact you Porsche Dealer is about hte best you can do - but I'd be super surprised if any of the mechanic's at a Porsche Dealer know anything about SSL certificates and what to do when they expire. Nor can they generate the necessary software release to resolve the issue.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest this is a software fault on Porsche's end (cerfications expire about every 5 to 10 years) and the PMCC has been haunting the industry now for about that time period.

anyone wanna take a bet that someone at Porsche forgot to get a renewed certificate, and if even they did know about the need for a refreshed cert, they failed to to generate and distribute an update to refresh the cert on the device? That's my bet.

1. Dealer won't be able to do anything
2. they will escalate to Porsche
3. it will take days/weeks/months for something to happen
4. it will be resolved by a software update
   1. but there is even money chance this certificate will block the device from OTA updates since the cert is expired it will be blocked from talking to the servers
5. there is a small chance dealer will replace the "faulty" unit with a new one - but if my theory is correct and it's a systemtic software issue, all the new ones will have the same problem
6. it also could be a server side error with a poorly worded client side (PMCC) error screen - and the problem may resolve itself with Porsche updating their cloud/server software - with out insight into the communcations design of the PMCC we can not know if the error is all that accurate
   1. SSL errors are hard to diagnose and server side issues can somethings cause client side failures…exactly like this.

the above 5 items is 100% speculation on my part, but I'll suggeest after 30+ years in the software business well informed speculation…

it also makes sense that it doesn't affect EV charging - because this only for the useless PMCC software on the device that reports charging statistics to the Porsche portal.

It will take time and effort to resolve this - more than replacement cost EVSE worth of time/effort in my opinion, and you may have to leave your PMCC with the dealership for diagnosis - meaning you will not have an EVSE if the dealer needs to keeps the device to "diagnose it" - translation - store it on a bench somewhere in their servcie shop while they wait for Porsche Germany to get back to them after the esclation.

I'd be curious if this is happening to other PMCC's - because if my theory is correct, Porsche just let their entire "fleet" of PMCC's expire and this problem will not be unique to specific units, but rather endemic the fleet - and will cost Porsche a lot of money to resolve if owners demand they be "fixed".

here are you choices:

1. have your dealer begin a resolution process
2. purchase an alternative
3. live with and ignore the problems since it doesn't seem to affect core functionality - and your Taycan still charges.

I'll be fascinated to hear of any investiation and/or resolution steps to this.

good luck!

p.s. I'm adding this to this thread…https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...uide-to-the-porsche-evse-pmc-pmcc-pwcc.13886/

more sauce for the goose…

@AndiL might have some insight here and be able to confirm/refute my speculation.

 

[WalterG]

this is a new one for me…and doesn't help the PMCC's case in my opinion.

Haha. For sure doesn't help the PMCC case.

 

[daveo4EV]

if some entity at Porsche let a cert expire (speculation on my part) - I'm going to suggest these sorts of problems can be cleaned up fixed pretty quickly if the team knows what to do…but if this is unexpected to Porsche and they do not have a team in place already up to speed on these sorts of issues - well then get out your pop-corn and watch this one evolve…

 

[daveo4EV]

I'm sorry not sorry - just honestly Porsche - ROFL - this is just painful to watch.

 

[WalterG]

Thanks Dave for your usual insightful input!

I did a factory reset and took the PMCC off of wifi - I don't use the web portal much and as an added bonus, I won't get unwanted updates. Let's see if not being able to request the certificate does the trick.
I know the "charging error" on my app only occurs when charging on my PMCC and it only recently started happening. I charge at a second house with a Clipper Creek that works great and does not result in the app having the "charging error" message.

 

[WalterG]

I think taking the PMCC offline from wifi did the trick. Porsche should be embarrassed. In any case the "Charging Error" is gone and no more Certificate error.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

I think taking the PMCC offline from wifi did the trick. Porsche should be embarrassed. In any case the "Charging Error" is gone and no more Certificate error.

Glad you got it solved. I'm sorry I didn't see this earlier, to help debug the issue.

Having said that, not sure why Porsche should be embarrassed? A software update is not a cert renewal, and vice versa. From your description, it sounds like the certificate built into the PMCC has expired and could not be renewed - this is the server cert of the built-in web app (and which probably acts as the client credential for any 'upstream' uploads). Cutting it off the wifi means any updates are reported by the car, bypassing those expired creds. (Just a theory.)

If you're wiling to put more time into debugging this and would like a hand, I'd be happy to help - please feel free to DM.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

here are you choices:

1. have your dealer begin a resolution process
2. purchase an alternative
3. live with and ignore the problems since it doesn't seem to affect core functionality - and your Taycan still charges.

I'll be fascinated to hear of any investiation and/or resolution steps to this.

Or, you know, the server (Porsche backend services) update their cert validation to accept expired EVSE certs.. - this is, indeed, assuming your proposed worst-case becomes reality (wave of expiring certs), and this wasn't a fluke.

These are self-signed certs for local/non-public DNS names, with no other distinguishing properties. They're needed because that's how TLS works, and their real/only value is to allow establishing of a secure connection of local clients to the PMCC/PMC+.

I'd be curious to find out more, and it should be pretty easy to pull network logs from the router (to see what the PMCC is trying to do). Mine's a PMC+ (no WiFi, PLC only), and I'm trying to fix the reliability of the network so I can poke around further.

 

[WalterG]

Glad you got it solved. I'm sorry I didn't see this earlier, to help debug the issue.

Having said that, not sure why Porsche should be embarrassed? A software update is not a cert renewal, and vice versa. From your description, it sounds like the certificate built into the PMCC has expired and could not be renewed - this is the server cert of the built-in web app (and which probably acts as the client credential for any 'upstream' uploads). Cutting it off the wifi means any updates are reported by the car, bypassing those expired creds. (Just a theory.)

If you're wiling to put more time into debugging this and would like a hand, I'd be happy to help - please feel free to DM.

Thanks! I just have to say this forum is awesome - always constructive input and clever people.

While I'm intellectually interested in debugging this, the current setup will work fine for me and I don't really have the time right now to put much more into it. I'm guessing that someday Porsche will have another sw update and when that is available I'll reconnect to wifi and see if loading an update does the trick. Or if something else goes wrong with it I'll be replacing it with a Tesla or Clipper Creek . Thanks again.

 

[tchavei]

Has anyone consider the possibility of a timezone / date mismatch?

cert expiry issue doesn't always have to be server side. Try changing your phone's or PC's clock/date and watch the entire Internet appear as "expired".

Wouldn't be surprised if the device somehow got the wrong date through the WiFi (possibly future) and acted based on that.

Just a thought.

 

[WalterG]

Has anyone consider the possibility of a timezone / date mismatch?

cert expiry issue doesn't always have to be server side. Try changing your phone's or PC's clock/date and watch the entire Internet appear as "expired".

Wouldn't be surprised if the device somehow got the wrong date through the WiFi (possibly future) and acted based on that.

Just a thought.

Interesting- I’ve noticed that my timers charge to the target charge an hour early. I checked the car and pmcc a while back when I noticed the timer issue but will double check. Maybe I'm missing somewhere that daylight savings time is set or something like that. Thank You!

 

[raharris]

If you go in through the web-portal on the PMCC you can create a new certificate. I had the same issue.

Im not at home at present, but will be later today will screenshot the relevant part of the portal.

richard

 

[raharris]

Sorry guys, I just got back and logged in from home and I cannot for the life of my find the page I did this on (logged in as home and support user). It feels like my hardware got updated at some point maybe?

But I found a screen where I could change the cert setting and now I can't find it anywhere in the web portal

 

[WalterG]

Sorry guys, I just got back and logged in from home and I cannot for the life of my find the page I did this on (logged in as home and support user). It feels like my hardware got updated at some point maybe?

But I found a screen where I could change the cert setting and now I can't find it anywhere in the web portal

Thanks for checking! I haven’t seen a cert error since I did a factory reset. I had taken it off line from wifi for a bit but put it back on to see what happens.

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