Rear lights color in USA

[whitex]

Ok, I got to play around with a CT today. Sadly, the rear blinkers double as stop lights, so I mey not be able to just swap them out for amber ones.

@tigerbalm (or anyone else with a non-US spec CT), what does your car look like from behind when your stop lights are on? Does the same light turn yellows or red depending on whether you are signaling or braking, or perhaps only one of the 3 levels (bottom maybe) is used as the blinker and the top two are brakes, or some other solution?

An up close picture (showing individual segments lighting up like below) of a non-US CT rear lights with the brake lights vs. directional blinkers (better yet, a video of blinkers in yellow while the brake lights are on) would be much appreciated. This is the USA model closeup:

 

[whitex]

After some digging through the internet, I found out that the non-USA, amber direction indicators (blinkers) use the very bottom light bars on the back, as show in the picture below.

Since these bars light up together with the stop light in the USA, the question is whether or not the decision to light them up in in the BCM2 module which controls the rear lights, or is the logic in the light itself. Some day, when I actually have a car to play with, I could snoop the LIN bus going to the lights, and see if there appear to be separate commands to light up each bar, or just messages telling it "tail light on/off", "brake light on/off", "direction indicator on/off" or "start/stop blinking direction indicator". If the latter, then the Euro style rear lights (outer rear light unit and the center rear light unit/panel) should just work in the USA. If on the other hand BCM2 lights up each bar individually, then it would take BCM2 firmware update to make it work with Euro lights, which would make it much more complex retrofit.

 

[Slappy_G]

After some digging through the internet, I found out that the non-USA, amber direction indicators (blinkers) use the very bottom light bars on the back, as show in the picture below.

Since these bars light up together with the stop light in the USA, the question is whether or not the decision to light them up in in the BCM2 module which controls the rear lights, or is the logic in the light itself. Some day, when I actually have a car to play with, I could snoop the LIN bus going to the lights, and see if there appear to be separate commands to light up each bar, or just messages telling it "tail light on/off", "brake light on/off", "direction indicator on/off" or "start/stop blinking direction indicator". If the latter, then the Euro style rear lights (outer rear light unit and the center rear light unit/panel) should just work in the USA. If on the other hand BCM2 lights up each bar individually, then it would take BCM2 firmware update to make it work with Euro lights, which would make it much more complex retrofit.

Did you ever end up finding out what the answer is on this? I just took delivery of a US model, and I would absolutely fit the Amber tail lights, even if it was a few thousand dollars, if I could do it without dealer involvement or complicated coding.

 

[whitex]

Did you ever end up finding out what the answer is on this? I just took delivery of a US model, and I would absolutely fit the Amber tail lights, even if it was a few thousand dollars, if I could do it without dealer involvement or complicated coding.

Unfortunately no. I got my taycan in Feb but life got real busy. I did find that suncoast sells the rear center light in both US and world versions, but didn’t see the corner taillights. I’ve been meaning to call suncoast and ask, but not sure what kind of reprogramming this would require. Ideally I want euro lighting all around - amber blinker taillights and enabled matrix headlights.

 

[whitex]

I went looking for this tail-light set and it now seems to have an updated (since I looked a while back) description which says it has all 3 pieces for $975 (installation needed separately)!

https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/sku9j1bmls.html

I wonder if I was to order the "Outside of North America" part, whether the dealer could install it and enable the non NA blinker operation (i.e. separate from brake lights), and what it would cost to install by dealer, or can I just swap it myself and it will "just work" without any ECU reprogramming.

 

[whitex]

@Slappy_G , did you find out any more on this (perhaps talked with the dealer)?

Just a quick update, I inquired with Suncoast and got the following response:

The color of the blinkers is different between the models, red in our region and amber outside North America. Also, the connectors are slightly different, and only the correct version can plug in the car's wiring harness.

We have done the Outside North America tail lamp swap on a 981 and also a Gen. 1 Macan. We had to modify the connectors by shaving some tabs so we can plug them in. No issues at all after installation and no programming was required.

We can't confirm if the same scenario is on a 2023 Taycan, sorry. Please consult with your local technician before doing any modifications.

Debating whether it's a $1,000 (and a bunch of work) experiment worth doing. If I knew it works, I would absolutely do it.

 

[mystermykee]

Thread revival.

I bought the "outside NA" version. Like the Macan, the Taycan is not a straight swap. The connectors are slightly different, so it will require some shaving. Easy peasy. BUT....it does look like coding is necessary. The rear turn signals work; however the amber in the center tail light does not. In the meantime, I will just have to go with 2/3 turn signals for now until I can get my car to the dealer. I must say even at a 2/3 turn signals, the ambers look so much better than red.

 

[mystermykee]

No luck at my local dealer. I'm out $300 for the diagnostic fee. Go figure....

The only thing they were able to think of was try to program the car to a different country code, but they said no option was available except U.S on their PIWIS. They also ran a command to turn all rear lights on, but the ambers in the center did not turn on. I guess the good news is that there are no fault codes. So, connections are the same just not the plug socket themselves.

I'm not too confident in local dealers knowing the ins and outs of PIWIS unless they have already programmed something via instructions from Porsche. Obviously, my dealer hasn't had anyone do this before. I'm surprised no one else in North America has done this. I can't be the only one! Lol.

I'm familiar with coding from the F8x platform and I coded anti-dazzle functionality (BMW's version of PDLS+) on my old M4. There were some attributes that needed values to be changed; however, those attributes didn't even show up until the ECU was recoded. Could this be the case here with the rear lights? My guess is that the current ECU (North America) that controls the rear lights doesn't have the right config to fully control the outside NA rear lights.

There might be a possibility that a non North America version of PIWIS is needed. Is that even a thing? I'm not too familiar with PIWIS. With E-Sys for BMW, you basically could do whatever you wanted regardless of region.

Perhaps someone here with deep PIWIS experience could help.

 

[whitex]

No luck at my local dealer. I'm out $300 for the diagnostic fee. Go figure....

The only thing they were able to think of was try to program the car to a different country code, but they said no option was available except U.S on their PIWIS. They also ran a command to turn all rear lights on, but the ambers in the center did not turn on. I guess the good news is that there are no fault codes. So, connections are the same just not the plug socket themselves.

I'm not too confident in local dealers knowing the ins and outs of PIWIS unless they have already programmed something via instructions from Porsche. Obviously, my dealer hasn't had anyone do this before. I'm surprised no one else in North America has done this. I can't be the only one! Lol.

I'm familiar with coding from the F8x platform and I coded anti-dazzle functionality (BMW's version of PDLS+) on my old M4. There were some attributes that needed values to be changed; however, those attributes didn't even show up until the ECU was recoded. Could this be the case here with the rear lights? My guess is that the current ECU (North America) that controls the rear lights doesn't have the right config to fully control the outside NA rear lights.

There might be a possibility that a non North America version of PIWIS is needed. Is that even a thing? I'm not too familiar with PIWIS. With E-Sys for BMW, you basically could do whatever you wanted regardless of region.

Perhaps someone here with deep PIWIS experience could help.

Is it possible that your center light is faulty (i.e. the directional signals are not working)? Or do you see them go on amber together with the brake lights like in the US car? It seems somewhat inconsistent that the corner lights are seeing a directional signal control message but not the center strip. Shouldn't they both be activated with the same control message?

 

[mystermykee]

I sure hope they aren't faulty. Wouldn't a fault code be thrown? Here's how they operate right now. I'm getting red lights coming on with the amber blinkers, and the amber blinkers come on when the brake pedal is pressed.

 

[mystermykee]

I never paid attention in detail to how the NA tail lights operated, but this part isn't working for me at the moment. I assume that part normally lights up red.

 

[irrelevant]

I've nothing of value to add, but would like to say thanks for your efforts to sort this out.

I wonder how many pennies per vehicle Porsche saved by equipping US Taycans with red turn signals, rather than amber?

 

[mystermykee]

Is the first picture just brake lights on (ie. do the amber lights go on for braking)?

Correct, first picture is with brake pedal pressed--ambers go on.

 

[whitex]

I never paid attention in detail to how the NA tail lights operated, but this part isn't working for me at the moment. I assume that part normally lights up red.

Yes. See post #16 above.

 

[whitex]

Correct, first picture is with brake pedal pressed--ambers go on.

Ok, so it seems the corner lights are behaving as if they were a US version, only the very bottom bar is amber instead of red (but still acting as both brake and turn signal). Surprisingly the middle bar is not behaving the same. I would have expected the amber part to light up together with the brake/turn signal.

From post #7, it's supposed to work like this for turn signals outside of NA:

Also from 2020 Taycan technical manual: