Stanford study warns against charging electric cars at home overnight

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Tooney

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In MA there are no special rates for EVs or time of day. They could easily incentivize what they need with better rates.

For me, I usually charge at night. I’ll charge during the day once my solar is installed (June ish). So no drag on the grid from me.
Just curious. I assume installing solar system in MA is worth it, or you wouldn't be doing it. How long do you expect it to take to payout? What part of your home's energy usage will your system supply?
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kort

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Utilities have a wonderful tool to control this, time-of-day pricing. Last I checked, they are cranking up this tool to shift everyone's usage to overnight. Perhaps that will change in the future and the cheapest electricity will be during the day, and some people with cars plugged in during the day may even charge to full and sell back part of their charge at a profit at night.
TOD pricing will have an effect on some usage, some people might run their dishwashers at night to save a few nickels and dimes, and many EV owners would continue to charge overnight as they currently do.
TOD pricing will just be another costly burden on businesses and people because in warmer climates nobody will shut down their AC during the hot days and in cold climates only a few would forgo heat.
so IMHO at the end of the day the TOD scheme has little merit.
 
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kort

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Just curious. I assume installing solar system in MA is worth it, or you wouldn't be doing it. How long do you expect it to take to payout? What part of your home's energy usage will your system supply?
I am in "sunny" FL and about 10 years ago I had a survey done to see if solar was a viable option. for me the math didn't work. I could only expect to cover 2/3 of my needs with solar and it was an almost 20+ year break even point. For me the best application of solar would be for heating my swimming pool. have someone come in and survey your home to see how much "juice" you could actually capture with the panels and then do the math.
 

kort

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What do you mean in 12 years? When did the rolling blackouts stop? Last I lived there (moved out circa 2002) scheduled rolling blackout were normal, happened almost every week, sometimes more than once a week.
I was in San diego in 1986 for the republican nation convention and there were daily power disruptions across the state back then. CA has done little to improve their generation and distribution issues.
 


Teufel Hund

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What do you mean in 12 years? When did the rolling blackouts stop? Last I lived there (moved out circa 2002) scheduled rolling blackout were normal, happened almost every week, sometimes more than once a week.
They are very few and far between now, at least where I live in So Cal (Torrance/Redondo Beach area). I honestly don’t remember the last time we had a rolling black out. Last couple of summers there have been short “brown outs” (which has disrupted my manufacturing company 🤬) but very few disruptions at the house. Probably depends on where in CA one lives and which power company.
Having said that, I’m getting prepared with a solar roof (not panels, the whole roof) sometime this year. I’ve been on the waitlist for just over a year and just received a message that I should be 30-90 days out for install. I opted for 1 powerwall to help cover any disruptions from the grid AND to hopefully be off grid during the evenings as well. Car charging overnight is of course another matter.
 

TheSauce

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What do you mean in 12 years? When did the rolling blackouts stop? Last I lived there (moved out circa 2002) scheduled rolling blackout were normal, happened almost every week, sometimes more than once a week.
I meant 12 years until you add the strain of an “all-EV “ future to the grid of a state ALREADY performing rolling blackouts regularly
 

daveo4EV

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I meant 12 years until you add the strain of an “all-EV “ future to the grid of a state ALREADY performing rolling blackouts regularly
staring thing is the roll-black outs happen when most EV's are not on grid - but late afternoon as AC usage ramps up and solar drops off…

EV's are not the cause of this - and honestly rolling blackout are happening all over the nation in any place with an actual population and economy

again the grid isn't good in it's current state and needs upgrading regardless of EV's on it or not…if you think the grid is good to go as it stands - well then you're simply not paying attention

upgrading it is just a matter of will…

status quo is not an option with or without EV's - and demand is slated to increase - again with or with out EV's

I don't see what everyone is complaining about investing in the grid - it's a society wide WIN to make the grid better and will have all sorts of benefits to all aspects of a modern growing vibrant society…status quo is not an option…it's not like the grid would be "fine" if there were no EV's.
 


whitex

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TOD pricing will have an effect on some usage, some people might run their dishwashers at night to save a few nickels and dimes, and many EV owners would continue to charge overnight as they currently do.
TOD pricing will just be another costly burden on businesses and people because in warmer climates nobody will shut down their AC during the hot days and in cold climates only a few would forgo heat.
so IMHO at the end of the day the TOD scheme has little merit.
You are looking at from the "glass half empty" perspective. Treat TOD not as "electricity more expensive during some time window" but rather "electricity is discounted during another time window". The goal is not to switch all usage, but only the usage which can be switched, for for example with current discounted electricity at night, you will not turn your AC off during the day, or your computers, etc, but you probably will schedule your EV to charge at night if you don't need it charging during the day. That will nicely flatten your load curve, which helps the utilities.
 
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whitex

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EV's are not the cause of this - and honestly rolling blackout are happening all over the nation in any place with an actual population and economy
I live in the Seattle area, no rolling blackouts since I've lived here (~20 years). I lived around Boston for a bit too, no rolling blackouts. I lived in Dallas area too, never experienced a rolling blackout but I will qualify this with the fact that I didn't live there long (but did during what was described at the time as the hottest summer in many years, think 106F at night on some days). Living in East Bay near San Francisco, regular rolling blackouts, mostly in the summer IIRC. All of those places I just mentioned have actual population and economy IMO, or do they not qualify as actual population and economy by California standards?
 

kort

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EV's are not the cause of this - and honestly rolling blackout are happening all over the nation in any place with an actual population and economy
can you cite such a place? I am frequently in the northeast US and I reside in FL, both of those regions have very large populations and vibrant economies.
I have never seen a rolling blackout other than the ones I've seen in CA
 

kort

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but you probably will schedule your EV to charge at night if you don't need it charging during the day.
this is just a guess but I suspect that the majority of people who charge their cars do so at home over the night time period.
there is a small set of people who charge while they are at work.
the TOD scheme would have almost zero impact on EV owners
 

daveo4EV

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can you cite such a place? I am frequently in the northeast US and I reside in FL, both of those regions have very large populations and vibrant economies.
I have never seen a rolling blackout other than the ones I've seen in CA
https://www.yahoo.com/news/america-being-hit-huge-surge-100000083.html

This might have been considered a once-in-a-lifetime event in the past, but mass blackouts are starting to become a more regular feature of modern American life. Power outages have increased 64% from the early 2000s, and weather-related outages — many driven by the worsening climate crisis — have increased 78%. But it's not just nature making our grid shakier: A system that was once largely controlled by localized public entities has been handed over to layers of regional authorities and private companies whose goal is maximizing profits — not reliability. As a result, our electrical system has been plagued by decreasing reliability, lagging maintenance, and soaring costs. All this has left America's energy system woefully unprepared to handle our uncertain future.
it's a nationwide problem - the grid needs upgrading.
 

ThePaddyWan

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Current rates here set by PG&E tries to incentivize off hours charging (outside of 4-9 PM by making it prohibitive expensive during those peak hours.

As others highlighted, EV charging is a blip on the map compared to the AC usage as people get home during summer months. Aggregate peak usage is the problem here in CA. If anything, they can just incentive folks to reduce charge amperage for L2 home chargers during certain times of day to balance our the (pretty darn fragile) grid as needed or alternatively increase overnight grid capacity as more EVs are purchased.

I can't see how having folks all DCFC during the day would help solve peak demand problem as it's trading off someone charging at home drawing 20-50amp to 500+ amp.
 

jrmuppet

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Just curious. I assume installing solar system in MA is worth it, or you wouldn't be doing it. How long do you expect it to take to payout? What part of your home's energy usage will your system supply?
it should cover everything and be paid off in 6-7 years. With the EV and a pool with a heat pump our electric bill is high. We have good sun coverage and no trees blocking.
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