Taycan v Kia EV6 GT

[WuffvonTrips]

Bought a Porsche EV because of the badge, if you think a Korean car cuts the mustard give your head a wobble.....

I hope for Porsche's sake they are taking potential EV rivals seriously. Yes, the badge is worth something and stands for something, but everyone puts their own values to those things. I assume that to many people, the Taycan is the better car...but what premium are the prepared to pay for it?

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[TaycanHero]

I hope for Porsche's sake they are taking potential EV rivals seriously. Yes, the badge is worth something and stands for something, but everyone puts their own values to those things. I assume that to many people, the Taycan is the better car...but what premium are the prepared to pay for it?

Next 25 years the "old guard" of luxury marques will possibly die off no different than what happened post WWII, where previous luxury marques couldn't adapt to new tech quick enough, and failed. We are in another era where new tech is rapidly accelerating.

Post WWII, Ferrari, Lambo and Porsche (who used to make tractors) among others, took the lead.

History always repeats and there is basically nothing that differentiates an electric engine. The fad of a trademark electric engine sound isn't enough. Driving dynamics is not difficult to perfect.

So what is left? It will turn into an arms race of exterior styling and internal quality combined with price, where with the latter no luxury marque will want to compromise because of the psychology of pricing.

The younger generations could not care less about brands, and they will grow up with whatever is "cool" on social media.

I would expect that among the big names: Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, Bentley, McClaren, Bugatti, Aston Martin, etc - at least one won't exist in 20 years, precisely because consumers will buy the grade below what they wanted from a challenger EV brand as it gives them everything they want at £30k lower cost.

 

[G7SUM]

I hope for Porsche's sake they are taking potential EV rivals seriously. Yes, the badge is worth something and stands for something, but everyone puts their own values to those things. I assume that to many people, the Taycan is the better car...but what premium are the prepared to pay for it?

Completely agree. I work in the medical device industry and we have many loyal customers. Sadly, supply chain issues have meant we have lost business to the competition. We are always open and transparent with delivery times, unlike Porsche!

 

[BigBob]

I would expect that among the big names: Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, Bentley, McClaren, Bugatti, Aston Martin, etc - at least one won't exist in 20 years, precisely because consumers will buy the grade below what they wanted from a challenger EV brand as it gives them everything they want at £30k lower cost.

Well, AM seems permanently at the point of financial crisis, so there's always a chance there. Hope not, as i think their cars are always No.1 for styling and sound.

As for the others, don't forget Lambo, Porsche, Bentley, Bugatti are all part of VW, so they may get de-emphasised or even mothballed but are unlikely to cease to exist.

 

[TaycanHero]

Well, AM seems permanently at the point of financial crisis, so there's always a chance there. Hope not, as i think their cars are always No.1 for styling and sound.

As for the others, don't forget Lambo, Porsche, Bentley, Bugatti are all part of VW, so they may get de-emphasised or even mothballed but are unlikely to cease to exist.

I do love AM, their cars are stunning.

Be a real shame if they go. Ditto McClaren who are also struggling at the moment.

They've just got into selling trainers as another revenue stream...

 

[WuffvonTrips]

History always repeats and there is basically nothing that differentiates an electric engine. The fad of a trademark electric engine sound isn't enough.

Porsche's Electric Sport Sound (and dealers promotion of it) did nothing to reassure me that the Taycan was a well-honed performance EV contender.

The younger generations could not care less about brands, and they will grow up with whatever is "cool" on social media.

True. I also think that anyone with an interest in cars and an open mind now has access to much of the information necessary to make an informed choice, without having to resort to trusting in products from alleged leading brands.

 

[Kayone73]

Bought a Porsche EV because of the badge, if you think a Korean car cuts the mustard give your head a wobble.....

What exactly do you mean by 'cuts the mustard'?

 

[erhand25]

Problem with cars like Kia or Hyundai, they dont age well in their ice modes. Not sure if i have trust in them their EVs, at least not yet

 

[jkoya]

While my Cross Turismo was stuck at the Port of Benicia for two months for Port Processing, I contacted several Kia dealers about the EV6. All of them had ADMs ranging from $5K to $10K, non negotiable as they couldn't keep them in stock. I just couldn't see paying $10K over MSRP for an EV6. This was back in April and May of this year...

 

[TK-421]

Kia EV6GT 0-60 3.5 75,000 USD
Taycan GTS 0-60 3.5 150,000 USD

Is the Taycan worth an extra 75k. If you are going to track it regularly, maybe so. If you value the ability to say you have a Porsche, OK. If the higher build quality and better materials are worth the 75k, OK. If the looks are worth the extra 75k (and it's damn close) OK.

For me, unless Porsche significantly ramps up performance in the future EV models, I've probably bought my last one. The delta of price just isn't worth it to me. I'll take the Kia, a nice watch, and 50k in the retirement fund. But that's just my value analysis, others will surely be different.

 

[WuffvonTrips]

For me, unless Porsche significantly ramps up performance in the future EV models, I've probably bought my last one. The delta of price just isn't worth it to me.

And the issue for Porsche is, in the case of straight-line performance, if they can significantly ramp it up, so can everybody else. (But maybe, as the EV revolution really gets going, the prospect of "dangerously unusable" and "energy-wasting" acceleration becoming the norm could prompt legislation which might limit the sale of such vehicles to low volumes and at punitive prices...so, well aligned with current performance brands).

 

[TomC]

I ordered a Kia EV6 GT-Line S as a second car earlier in the year. We test drove a Tesla Model 3, Ioniq 5, Ford Mustang Mach-E and Jaguar iPace and it felt the best of them all. It's still very clearly not at the level of a Taycan in terms of looks and quality, but then it costs 3x less than my Turbo S. The GT looks quality and I would have ordered it were it available.

Only problem is I can't offer any insight into the EV6. After ordering in February, it got to June and I'm told that the silver paint I chose (which was one of five options and used in all their marketing) was no longer available and if I stuck with it the delay would be "somewhere between months and years". Must use a lot of microchips in that paint. I changed it to white and it still looks unlikely I will get the car this year.

 

[TaycanHero]

The more EVs I drive, the more they begin to all feel the same. Obviously some drive a lot better than others. Thus far:

• Mercedes EQA - Limo like ride, otherwise unexciting. And an SUV. I hate them.
• Peugeot e208 - a bit "my first car", but ultimately very fun to drive and unexpectedly nice interior. Range was terrible, which is why I hated it.
• BMW I4 M Sport - very impressive with all of the "Pro" packages added and really nice looking. Exceptional range. The most similar car I have found to the Taycan for ride quality and handling. I almost bought one last month via a cancelled order. I then cancelled that cancelled order when I found out the cream interior had a white exterior. Almost vomited.
• Hyundai Ioniq 5 - love the looks. Interior was ok, but still felt a bit cheap. Wasn't that impressed with ride quality. Felt too much like an SUV bouncing down the street, and I just don't like SUVs for that reason.
• Cupra Born - built on the ID3 platform, this is supposed to be an EV hot hatch. It's not. It is even more tedious to drive than the EQA. The most powerful iteration only has 4 seats, where the middle seat is taken up with a battery. Unacceptable for the price as it instantly devalues the car, which is aimed at families. Ultimately flawed and overpriced as well.
• Taycan CT - did a 30 minute test drive on A and B roads, most of it in Sport+. Absolutely loved it to the point of ordering one (that then changed to a GTS ST). Incredible ride quality, handling and performance.
• Taycan GTS saloon - 15 minute test drive, not enough to compare to the CT, but ride was basically identical. Incredibly impressive vehicle.
• VW ID4 - my current ride and it's an SUV. You know what I am going to say, but... I kind of love it. I don't know why. Maybe it's the unexpectedly sharp handling, the chunky rear tyres that have great torque, the incredible visibility, the excellent range. I really like it.

In the next month I should have an I-PACE on my drive. Really looking forward to that as the only SUV that I expect to enjoy driving.

With ICE, it was easy for manufacturers to differentiate with better or more powerful engines; superior drive train and transmission; superior ride quality; plush interior; better paintwork; more radical chassis design and styling.

In the digital age, we have China/Far East capitalising on a declining West and with that they are seriously catching up or even surpassing much of our technology. Offshoring manufacturing and high technology has accelerated this decline. The West shot itself in the foot.

The only differentiator with EVs will eventually become:

• Cost
• Range
• Charging benefits
• Software/computer power.

Everything else that was such a USP for ICE vehicles is now a relic of a different era.

With EVs:

• Engines are all the same
• Fuel is all the same
• Speed is all the same
• Range is becoming more standardised
• Body styling is becoming more radical, but uniform because of aerodynamic constraints
• Interior and chassis quality is becoming more similar
• Handling and ride dynamics is becoming very similar (a benefit of low centre of gravity with the batteries).

Thus, consumers are increasingly not going to justify spending £15k, £30k, £50k, £75k, £100k or more on a luxury marque where a challenger EV brand gives them everything they want at such discount.

The only real differentiator in EV land is ultimately going to become someone's emotions and only where that supersedes their budget.

If there were 3-4 challengers to the Taycan on the market this moment, most of us on this forum would not be buying one. As it is, there is no competition, so Porsche should enjoy this flurry of new customers while it lasts, because it won't.

 

[tutis]

I am with you on the ID4; I also dislike SUVs, and know that the GTX has lukewarm performance but I have a soft spot for it...

 

[f1eng]

Driving dynamics is not difficult to perfect.

I think if this were actually true (It isn’t IME) there wouldn’t be a majority of appalling handling cars!

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