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Two-way charging?

slothinker

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Ford just announced that future EVs would sport two-way charging meaning that a vehicle could be used as back-up power in a home or shop. I'd love to have this functionality in my Taycan. Any thought on whether this could be a retrofit, assuming that Porsche got on board with the idea?
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Dabz

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Vehicle to grid is being tested here in the UK, with one supplier and one vehicle. It’ll come, just not yet sure when. Will be amazing when it does
 

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Ford claims to support this w/their EV's

the trick to this is the auto-matic cut-off switch integrated into residential housing - you can't back feed power to the grid for safety reasons during an outage - so the "cost/complexioty" is all in the auto-cut off switch - it's no different for a traditional gas generator…

and yes the EV needs to support it - but honestly that will happen - but the cost to add/integrate a auto-cutoff switch for the entire home is the trick/cost/complexity…

once you have one of those powering a home from: EV, batteries, solar, generator is pretty easy honestly.

the car is NOT the problem - it's the fact that 99.9% of North American homes are not setup to be an isolated self powered home while the grid is offline - and it's not cheap to add that functionality to your existing residential electrical system.
 

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The EU regulation is already written and under review.
Essentially, most new EVs sold in Europe from 2025 (or 2026) will need to support V2G (Vehicle to Grid). As a minimum, the cars will need o support one of the 2 protocols for V2G charging. the protocol is important as the same will have to be supported in the EVSE chargers.

The bigger issue as mentioned earlier is the overall grid compatibility. The practical (and more common) solution that will become main stream is using the car to power the home during 'peak periods'.

The protocol and the regulation is necessary to ensure that the DNO (the electricity distributer) can then control the charging/ discharging of the vehicle battery during periods of 'electricity excess/shortfall' at the grid level.

Exciting times... but the Taycan is unlikely to be retro fitted. far too much engineering involved...
 
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slothinker

slothinker

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Might be an edge case, but I'd be happy with the ability to connect the Taycan battery to a 1500W-3000W 120v inverter for powering several sump pumps in cases of heavy rain or powering emergency LED lighting if the power were to go off for a couple of days.
 


mtw57

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Ford just announced that future EVs would sport two-way charging meaning that a vehicle could be used as back-up power in a home or shop. I'd love to have this functionality in my Taycan. Any thought on whether this could be a retrofit, assuming that Porsche got on board with the idea?
You can purchase a Ford F150 Lightning or an F150 with Powerboost option here in the US that provides the ability to use your vehicle as a b/u generator. I have the 7.2 kW Powerboost/Pro Power option in my F150 Lariat. You end up with a 240 VAC 30A outlet that you run a portable generator cord set to a residential transfer switch in the house. As others have noted, depending on your residential setup, installation and wiring of the transfer switch can involve significant cost (hundreds to thousands of dollars) to have the proper hardware installed by a licensed electrician. I say proper hardware as the F150 forums are filled with individuals trying to go things on the cheap and end up with vehicle nuisance breaker tripping or worse, unsafe conditions in the house. The issue is the vehicle configuration (at least in the F150 case) for how the ground and neutral feeds are handled, as it requires a specific type of transfer switch to eliminate the truck breaker tripping constantly from false ground faults. The bottom line is the capability exists today and can be done safely but is isn’t without some technical challenges. In the case of the F150, the inverter for DC to AC conversion is in the truck. IMO, that doesn’t make sense for all vehicles so there is the dependency on the standards bodies to define a common vehicle and residential utility configuration. For the Taycan, a retrofit to pull a HVDC feed out of the car and then hit an inverter to connect to a residential transfer switch is likely a bridge too far given the current (no pun intended…) state.
 

Cherryjock

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Ford just announced that future EVs would sport two-way charging meaning that a vehicle could be used as back-up power in a home or shop. I'd love to have this functionality in my Taycan. Any thought on whether this could be a retrofit, assuming that Porsche got on board with the idea?
Porsche are already working on v2g.
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/202...-grid-vehicle-to-grid-applications-27528.html
A vehicle as back-up power is likely to be uneconomic but the need for grid balancing is becoming ever more important.
I am initially using the supplied charger, I'll eventually get one like this.
https://www.indra.co.uk/v2g/
 

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Porsche are already working on v2g.
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/202...-grid-vehicle-to-grid-applications-27528.html
A vehicle as back-up power is likely to be uneconomic but the need for grid balancing is becoming ever more important.
I am initially using the supplied charger, I'll eventually get one like this.
https://www.indra.co.uk/v2g/
The Indra V2G project is unlikely to come to fruition… as it seems their main investment partner (the big energy giant OVO energy) has walked away.

The whole V2G project was funded and driven by OVO Energy as part of their Kraken platform… and it appears OVO have walked away from Indra.
OVO has experimented with the F150 in the US…. (Using an American EVSE company) but the cost of install and teh V2G equipment itself makes the project infeasible… and difficult to commercialise.
The Taycan V2G option is unlikely to come to light anytime soon… at least not the current model or the facelift.

Be careful if you opt for the Indra charger, their support does not seem to be the best. Talking to multiple installers and installion companies gives you a fair idea about which installers have higher complaints, how well different companies support post-install problems, how many fixed in warranty, how many replaced in warranty, etc…
 


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Tough sell for me. What Porsche will charge extra for this in the states, I could buy a nice Honda generator.
 
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slothinker

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Wondering if there might be a 'poor man's' version of !two-way charging" in case of a home power failure. I have a Yeti 1000x (formerly Goal Zero) portable power station which is optionally charged through its 12V port.

Question is: in an emergency, could the power station be re-charged from the Taycan's 12V charging port?
 

Andrewedensco

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Vehicle to grid is being tested here in the UK, with one supplier and one vehicle. It’ll come, just not yet sure when. Will be amazing when it does
I have what’s called V2G from OVO energy on my Nissan Leaf. It’s called Grid Balancing and charge it when they want and they take (export) power when they need it. I can specify for each day when I need it and the charge level I require. Never failed yet. I get paid 11 pence more than I pay to charge whenever they take power out, - but that means that they now pay 41pence for every kW I export from my solar panels as wellI. The carefull control of the charge/discharge rates means that I am informed the battery is in a really excellent state and the car is nearly 7 years old! I make an average of £150 rebate per month. I have asked when Porsche are going to negotiate something similar with the UK energy suppliers, because looks like I should earn much more.
Looks like they are trialing something similar in Germany.
Addendum; The UK V2G trial provided a free bi-directional charger to each person taking part in the trial, which in theory can do 6.5kW in both directions. It required OVO Energy to get special permission to export 3.6kW plus 4kW solar, and the trial has been extended from 24months to 36months. A sign of things to come is the Taycan battery being used to provide backup power to the house using the same or a new bi-directional charger, something I hear is on trial in Germany. Any updates?
 
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slothinker

slothinker

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Wondering if there might be a 'poor man's' version of !two-way charging" in case of a home power failure. I have a Yeti 1000x (formerly Goal Zero) portable power station which is optionally charged through its 12V port.

Question is: in an emergency, could the power station be re-charged from the Taycan's 12V charging port?
I asked about Porsche tech support about this. They replied but declined to comment one way or the other. I think I'm going to give it a go. Should work.
 
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slothinker

slothinker

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OK, I don't think this experiment rises to discovery of electricity but it so happens that you can, in fact, charge a portable power station through the Taycan's cigarette lighter 12V outlet. I was able to charge at both 5A and 10A settings using the Goal Zero/Yeti 1000W power station lighter outlet adapter. Charging at 5A was about 50W (this, I believe, conforms to the laws of physics). By the time I tried the 10A the unit was nearly fully charged so the rate slowed down significantly. Otherwise I think the charging rate would be about 100W/hr at 10A.

I found that charging this unit from 45% to 90% didn't really make a dent in the Taycan's 12V battery which remained in the 13.1V to 13.2V range. Running the car even briefly brought the 12V battery up to 13.6V. I also tried charging while the Taycan was running. That, too, seemed to work fine. The car started and ended with its battery at 56%.

I did, toward the end of the experiment (3 hours), find that the Taycan would stop putting out power through the outlet. I believe it may have an automatic timed shutoff similar to the way the lights go out after a while when the trunk is left open. However, powering the car on and off or removing and reinserting the adapted caused it to start sending juice again.

I'm excited about this because in the U.S. the gov't provides a tax rebate on 30% of the cost of a power station which puts out at least 3000 watts of power. W/ such I can easily power my frig or emergency pumps in case of flooding (long story), etc. The main power source, of course, will be a 200-300W solar panel but the Taycan is a good back-up in case of overcast or night time. In my situation this is a more affordable alternative to the $10K+ cost of a Tesla Powerwall or comparable.
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