Are Taycans the bargains of the Porsche model lineup?

[Kayone73]

Bargains in terms of service and maintenance costs? Maybe

In terms of everything else? I'm not sure about that.

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[f1eng]

Has anyone else ever used the Porsche configurator to build other models using roughly the same options as you have on your Taycan build?

I know that, obviously, some models are closer to the Taycan than others, but, as you fellow Porsche owners know, the options and technology (aside from EV drivetrain) can be very similar across model lines.

I think in order of similarity it would be Panamera, Cayenne, 911, Macan, Boxster/Cayman.

When I do this, particularly with respect to Cayennes and 911s, I am always surprised by how much more expensive the other models are for builds with very similar options. On top of that, the Taycan has competitive (or better) performance and equal or superior interior space.

So, even though each model has a different primary target driver in mind and these comparisons are really apples or oranges, I would have expected the Taycans to be more expensive with similar configurations rather than less expensive, and that doesn't seem to be the case. I expect that they are being subsidized for the purpose of meeting fleet wide efficiency standards, right?

An IC engine is spectacularly more complex and expensive to make than electric motors, particularly nowadays with complex turbo and intercooler instalations for efficiency.

The NA engines still in production are few but the high revving ones have very expensive low production volume reciprocating parts.

Battery apart I would guess a Taycan power train is massively less expensive than the others.

 

[f1eng]

the Turbo S really isn't 2x more expensive to make than the RWB with a small battery.

This is pretty well the case with all cars, and always has been.
The big profit is made on the high spec models and options.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

This is pretty well the case with all cars, and always has been.
The big profit is made on the high spec models and options.

Well, that's not what I said. My point The point I was trying to make is that the real cost difference between the top and base trims of an ICE model are less than for an EV. That is, absolutely the 992 turbo S has a higher cost (before profit) than the base model. And before Porsche went turbo across the range, the difference was even higher.

For EVs, the cost diff between the powertrain (battery and all) of RWB with standard battery and the turbo S with the larger battery is probably within 10-25%.

(edited for tone and clarity)

 

[whitex]

I expect that they [Taycans] are being subsidized for the purpose of meeting fleet wide efficiency standards, right?

Very unlikely they are subsidized. If they were, that would mean Porsche is completely incompetent. in manufacturing (which they are not) Taycans cost mode than Model S with which they compete, and Tesla makes good a profit margin on Model S (higher % than Model 3/Y).

 

[whitex]

Interesting. I am really focused on pricing. Funny that you mention the Cayenne e-hybrid, as that is one of the exact models I had in mind. My Taycan CT spec was US$181K. A similar spec on the visualizer for the Cayenne e-hybrid is US$210K, which is actually what led me to create this thread.

Out of curiosity, did you check much were a Taycan Turbo and Turbo S in an equivalent configurations?

 

[TDinDC]

Very unlikely they are subsidized. If they were, that would mean Porsche is completely incompetent. in manufacturing (which they are not) Taycans cost mode than Model S with which they compete, and Tesla makes good a profit margin on Model S (higher % than Model 3/Y).

I’m not sure this is true. I understand that, because Europe imposes fleet efficiency standards, many manufacturers have produced high efficiency cars and sold them for break-even or slight loss just so that they can continue to sell less efficient ICE cars that are much more profitable. Now, I’m sure that this will be much less of a phenomena over time, but I can easily imagine Porsche making less profit on Taycan just to get their first foray into EVs successfully launched. I don’t think that would make it a failure

 

[RAHRCR]

Taycan is the “Macan” of the sedan range. Relatively high volume as compared to the rest of the Porsche family. I am not surprised with the OP’s conclusion.

Porsche has the most profit per car than any other manufacturer. You can be sure that Taycan is helping with this no matter the price point.

 

[TDinDC]

Taycan is the “Macan” of the sedan range. Relatively high volume as compared to the rest of the Porsche family. I am not surprised with the OP’s conclusion.

Porsche has the most profit per car than any other manufacturer. You can be sure that Taycan is helping with this no matter the price point.

Sure, but to be clear, I mean the entire Taycan model range, and the comparison I was focusing on is solely amongst Porsche model ranges -- not other manufacturers. I am not meaning to say that Porsche is losing money. It does appear that they are not making as much of a margin on Taycans as they do on the other models. I did admit earlier that I had been comparing the price I paid for my MY22 to the pricing on the simulator of other models, which really made mine a bargain. When I put my build back into the simulator, it was significantly more expensive, so the difference isn't as great. But I do stand by the idea that from the bang for buck perspective, it is pretty hard to beat the Taycan, particularly when comparing them to Panameras or the CT to Cayennes.

 

[TDinDC]

Out of curiosity, did you check much were a Taycan Turbo and Turbo S in an equivalent configurations?

Yes, I did several builds. Turns out you end up in that classic Porsche pricing model of paying for speed/HP. If I recall correctly, I would have had to pay US$15K more for the same build as a Turbo, and US$25-30K more for the same build as a Turbo S. Worse yet, the depreciation rates for both the Turbo and, particularly, the Turbo S, were much higher than for the 4S, which seems to be the universally agreed upon sweet spot in the line-up, which is why I chose it over the Turbo or Turbo S (and yes, I very, very nearly pulled trigger on Turbo S as I like the idea of having the apex predator in the line-up but then never, ever race anyone or even use launch control -- so I guess I am becoming a bit more mature).

 

[RAHRCR]

Sure, but to be clear, I mean the entire Taycan model range, and the comparison I was focusing on is solely amongst Porsche model ranges -- not other manufacturers. I am not meaning to say that Porsche is losing money. It does appear that they are not making as much of a margin on Taycans as they do on the other models. I did admit earlier that I had been comparing the price I paid for my MY22 to the pricing on the simulator of other models, which really made mine a bargain. When I put my build back into the simulator, it was significantly more expensive, so the difference isn't as great. But I do stand by the idea that from the bang for buck perspective, it is pretty hard to beat the Taycan, particularly when comparing them to Panameras or the CT to Cayennes.

I understood your point but you may have missed mine. Given that Taycan is the lower of the two models of 4 door Porsche sedans….just as the Macan is the lower of 2 models of SUVs, it is no surprise that it is less expensive when compared with with a Panamera or Cayenne.

 

[TDinDC]

I understood your point but you may have missed mine. Given that Taycan is the lower of the two models of 4 door Porsche sedans….just as the Macan is the lower of 2 models of SUVs, it is no surprise that it is less expensive when compared with with a Panamera or Cayenne.

I think I am missing the point (not too surprising). I don't understand how Taycan is the lower model when compared to the Panamera or the Cayenne. I view them as parallel model ranges. Each of the three ranges has the base model and then various steps up until the "Turbo S" or equivalent. This is different than the Cayenne/Macan comparison, where they both have the base and step ups, but at each step the Macan is the little sibling of the Cayenne. When you compare the Taycan Turbo S to the Panamera Turbo S or the Cayenne Turbo (GTS or whatever) , it doesn't seem like one is lower to the others.

 

[RAHRCR]

I think I am missing the point (not too surprising). I don't understand how Taycan is the lower model when compared to the Panamera or the Cayenne. I view them as parallel model ranges. Each of the three ranges has the base model and then various steps up until the "Turbo S" or equivalent. This is different than the Cayenne/Macan comparison, where they both have the base and step ups, but at each step the Macan is the little sibling of the Cayenne. When you compare the Taycan Turbo S to the Panamera Turbo S or the Cayenne Turbo (GTS or whatever) , it doesn't seem like one is lower to the others.

When the full EV Panamera is available, the difference will be more clear.

 

[TDinDC]

When the full EV Panamera is available, the difference will be more clear.

Right, but I still do not view the Taycan as the "lower" version of the Panamera. I view the Panamera as more focused on the luxury side of the equation while the Taycan is more focused on the sport side of the equation. I am also biased because I view the world of Taycan through the Cross Turismo lens, which I think further supports my view that Taycan is not the "lower" version of the Panamera.

 

[bsclywilly]

If it adds to the conversation, Porsche has also stated that within 2 years their EV will match profit margins of their ICE cars and within 5 years expect them to more profitable than traditional ice due to scale and maturity of manufacturing processes.

I would guess it matters too that the average Taycan customer is also a different demographic than the average P customer. Younger and first time to the brand may influence their decisions.

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