EU/UK: Ongoing navigation issues

[chun]

I'm on the 3885 since about November 2025. Navigation has not had any freeze situations, but the PCM has done a couple of reboots (driving, but no active route guidance/navigation).

So far, so good. But earlier this week, I did a 200 + 200 km trip, and while navigation instructions and screen updates were spot on, there was another glitch: PCM showed that I would arrive at destination with a higher battery percentage than the current SOC (no charging sessions was planned). In fact, it kept going slowly upwards, as if the car was expecting a 100 km long downwards slope or something.

Anyone else seen this?

Yes, I've had that. Also scenarios of the car telling me to drive a few tens or hundreds of kilometers to arrive at the charger that is... next to me, and not allowing me to charge unless i stop the navigation. And many other such bugs, like preconditioning going on until the end of time making the battery get thermal throttled, or per-conditioning refusing to start, or the car intentionally ignoring Porsche/ionity cheaper charging locations in favor of more expensive ones (despite being in the same parking lot)

It's all related to the charge planner. The version that is in our cars is missmatched with what porsche is running server side / in newer cars / in the app; and it doesn't look like they bothered doing any regression testing of the api when they decided to fuck the old owners and upgrade only for newer cars

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[cityhpper]

Thanks, @chun

Hope they fix this before summer, planning a trip across Europe in June/July. Of course one can map out the chargers manually (save them as favorites etc.) but that is more of a hassle...

 

[Brombaer1971]

Hope they fix it yesterday.

 

[ferdiaz]

like preconditioning going on until the end of time making the battery get thermal throttled

Slight off-topic, but I found this is very interesting and really resonates with my experience.

Last December I did my first long-distance trip from CH to the north of Spain and return. One way is around 1600 km, done in two legs of around 800km each.

While cruising through France at around 0-3 °C I observed that, a couple of times, I reached the scheduled charging station with the battery hitting 48-50 °C.

That struck me as a bit too high tempoerature for preconditioning. Could this be the case that you're mentioning, where preconditioning kicks in but does not go off? Ultimately, though, I am unsure about what is the target temperature that preconditioning aims for when arriving to the charging station. Do you guys know?

 

[chun]

Slight off-topic, but I found this is very interesting and really resonates with my experience.

Last December I did my first long-distance trip from CH to the north of Spain and return. One way is around 1600 km, done in two legs of around 800km each.

While cruising through France at around 0-3 °C I observed that, a couple of times, I reached the scheduled charging station with the battery hitting 48-50 °C.

That struck me as a bit too high tempoerature for preconditioning. Could this be the case that you're mentioning, where preconditioning kicks in but does not go off? Ultimately, though, I am unsure about what is the target temperature that preconditioning aims for when arriving to the charging station. Do you guys know?

Yes, it is the case. The optimal temperature is 35 degrees. Preconditioning should stop there, and then any excess temperature should be managed by the radiators and removed.

It's a mess. Fire hazard due to excess temperature because preconditioning doesn't stop, accident hazard due to innodrive crashes, risk of condense due to preconditioning not startring.

It's a wonder that it's not a recall Governments are too busy to give a flying f**k anymore apparently.
Not sure if Switzerland has a regulating body for recall of products, but would definitely be worthwhile to contact them.

 

[ferdiaz]

Yes, it is the case. The optimal temperature is 35 degrees. Preconditioning should stop there, and then any excess temperature should be managed by the radiators and removed.

It's a mess. Fire hazard due to excess temperature because preconditioning doesn't stop, accident hazard due to innodrive crashes, risk of condense due to preconditioning not startring.

It's a wonder that it's not a recall Governments are too busy to give a flying f**k anymore apparently.
Not sure if Switzerland has a regulating body for recall of products, but would definitely be worthwhile to contact them.

Thanks for confirming. I will report this to my PZ. Of all the little niggles, this is the one that worries me the most.

 

[ovonrein]

one can map out the chargers manually (save them as favorites etc.)

You mean in the app. Does that do anything useful? I have planned my route sometimes in the app, followed by Send (to car). But while the car acknowledged receipt of my destination, it always redid the route planning from scratch. Have you witnessed it respecting your app favourites?

 

[ferdiaz]

You mean in the app. Does that do anything useful? I have planned my route sometimes in the app, followed by Send (to car). But while the car acknowledged receipt of my destination, it always redid the route planning from scratch. Have you witnessed it respecting your app favourites?

Same experience as you here. Route planning in the app can only be treated as an informative draft, which ultimately, gets redone in 99% of the cases.

Also, the estimations done by the app are wildly different than the ones done by the PCM planner. Hence the redoing.

 

[chun]

Wanted to avoid posting this, but I think it's generic enough.

Porsche mobility says the issue is known and being worked on, with no time frame for the fix in sight.

As I know personally people working for Porsche Software division in Cluj, Romania, I asked directly there also. The issue is not "being worked on", unless you consider budget and cost discussions as "work". The solution is known by the devs, it's to upgrade PCM software (cost is upwards of 10mil; as it's 6h+ of service time per car).

Porsche is trying to allocate a budget for a smaller update, that target fixes this issue. Counter point is that it will also be service time, so still significant cost in service time + budget for new update development. And that's the work done so far to fix this

It's about 6 months of development time from when they actually start developing the fix - they also need to regression test with all combination of ECU versions, all iterations of PCM hardware (similar enough, different providers of memory etc), and more.

Meanwhile they argue what's cheaper to do, they bleed money from all the people going to warranty check their cars every few weeks about the issue + many hardware replacements, since there is no TI published about the issue, so services do whatever they want.

 

[chun]

You mean in the app. Does that do anything useful? I have planned my route sometimes in the app, followed by Send (to car). But while the car acknowledged receipt of my destination, it always redid the route planning from scratch. Have you witnessed it respecting your app favourites?

It does nothing; the app is missmatched in terms of API info to the car. Routes are calculated differently. The app is compatible in terms of route planning with PCM 4360+
So when you send a route from the app, it only sends the end destination and intermediary stops, and then it recalculates the route - often replacing the chargers you gave it as intermediary stops.

 

[Tooney]

Wanted to avoid posting this, but I think it's generic enough.

Have you learned the cause of the issue from the sources? Why is the problem apparently only in Europe?

If the cause is related to the density of charging sites, POIs, or something similar related to geography, would it not also be occurring in similar "dense" areas in US?

 

[chun]

Have you learned the cause of the issue from the sources? Why is the problem apparently only in Europe?

If the cause is related to the density of charging sites, POIs, or something similar related to geography, would it not also be occurring in similar "dense" areas in US?

It’s been guessed multiple times correctly that the issue is to do with data quantity. We have much more providers of chargers and multiple providers that deliver that data in Europe.

With newer pcm/navigation a lot of that data processing has been moved server side, which is not the case for my20-24.

 

[Tooney]

It’s been guessed multiple times correctly that the issue is to do with data quantity. We have much more providers of chargers and multiple providers that deliver that data in Europe.

With newer pcm/navigation a lot of that data processing has been moved server side, which is not the case for my20-24.

Is the fix, if it is ever developed and deployed, a software update in the car, or would car hardware also need to be changed?

Why are owners in this forum having hardware/PCMs/central computers replaced for this problem? Dealer error/confusion?

 

[chun]

Is the fix, if it is ever developed and deployed, a software update in the car, or would car hardware also need to be changed?

Why are owners in this forum having hardware/PCMs/central computers replaced for this problem? Dealer error/confusion?

The fix is a software stack update in the car (so 4360+); or a change to the API to filter the data sent to the my20-24 cars for processing + route planner update in the car to match the data that would be expected.

There is no communication on the matter, no TIs, so services do what’s best for them, aka pile up warranty work paid by porsche central

Every time the topic of PCM was discussed with this person, hardware was never a topic, as it is largely the same.

My piwis from China certainly says my car can be updated to latest pcm

 

[ovonrein]

when you send a route from the app, it only sends the end destination and intermediary stops, and then it recalculates the route

That conforms with my experience.

While cruising through France at around 0-3 °C I observed that, a couple of times, I reached the scheduled charging station with the battery hitting 48-50 °C.

That seems high. It may or may not be the Charge Planner, depending on the SOC at arrival. As I commented elsewhere, on long journeys I see low temperatures only at the first charge stop. Beyond that first charge, temperatures never drop again (much) from the elevated levels the battery attained under the previous charge. Even at freezing ambient temperatures. But if you get to such higher temperatures, that begs the question whether your cooling fans are working. (You should be able to tell during charging.)

the estimations done by the app are wildly different than the ones done by the PCM planner.

Perhaps that stands to reason. I usually do my route planning from the comfort of me sofa, long before the departure timer and while the car is on charge.

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