My Taycan 4s vs Model S90D

[LongLive959]

Touché

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[LongLive959]

So then clearly it is just a different approach (by Tesla)….not an “EV thing”. But it seems to be appreciated (by some). And it’s nice that on Tesla’s there is a choice to have it on or off. It would be nice (for me) to see it on P cars. But like I said, that’s not Porsche’s vision for cars, so we must abide.

 

[Genau]

I disagree. Tesla set the standard for EVs (especially in the areas of battery tech, charging infrastructure and other internal vehicle technology). Everyone else is playing catch-up and one peddle driving and regenerative braking simply makes more sense for an EV than an ICE vehicle.

I mean, if you could use your brakes to add more gas to your car, you’d probably think it’s a good idea and restoring some energy back to the battery in lieu of braking, seems pretty intuitive.

I get that it may not be for everyone (as a driving preference) which is why Tesla gives you the OPTION to have it either way (and as a simple aside…there is an added bonus that my current Model S has 162,000km and I’m still on the original brakes). For me, it comes down to choice. I’d like to choose how I like to drive, not how some third party decided I should drive.

You fail to appreciate Porsche's engineering achievements in blended braking and in high energy recuperation that made the Taycan's highly efficient non-one pedal driving possible. Until recently, Tesla relied upon friction braking whenever the brake pedal was applied, and only performed regenerative braking during non-brake pedal deceleration. In contrast, the Taycan only engages friction brakes during braking that is harder than most people use in normal driving. At that point, Porsche's blended braking typically makes the application of friction brakes on top of recuperation unnoticeable to the driver.

 

[Porsche-Guru]

Tesla is great in electronic stuff like software... while Porsche is great at car stuff like making a car that 'drives like a car'.

Having said that, wish that Taycan had more physical buttons than everything touch screen.... and took a leaf out of BMW for camera systems.
If it were a choice.... I'd rather have a car that drives well rather than great software.

-----------------
Update:

Regarding 1-pedal driving...
I am so glad that Porsche did not follow the herd..... and have kept the driving like an ICE car. Natural, intuitive, coasts when you take off the pedal.... like any of the cars from the last 100 years.
Don't fix what ain't broke.

 

[whitex]

We picked up our new Taycan 4S yesterday and I wanted to share some of my initial thoughts between it and my 2016 Model S90D (refresh). I have a brand new non-plaid Model S on order with 21" wheels and a yoke, which I will discuss when I get it but wanted to share some of my initial thoughts between both cars.

After a decade of driving Tesla (all Model S, 2013, 2015, 2017, 2018) I switched our household to Taycan and Q8 eTron. Some comments on your first impressions, as I went through it less than a year ago. I chose to pick my Taycan up on the other side of the country so that I can drive it home 3,500 miles to get to know it. Having done coast-to-coast with the Model S, the EV part was not scaring me.

Technology and UI

* Generally speaking the Tesla UI is way more user friendly, way more intuitive and IMO vastly superior in almost all regards except speed (remember - I have an old Tesla that operates super slow). I'm sure the new one will be fast.

By far, Tesla UI is way more intuitive and usable. That said, you will probably learn to appreciate a few touch buttons on the instrument cluster (most useful one being raising the suspension) or Sport Chrono drive mode selector (if you have one), and last but not least, wireless Apple CarPlay or Android Auto integration - something Teslas cannot beat, Elon cannot fund as many apps as there are apps available for smarphones. For example, I like to use waze, with warnings about hazards on the roads, no such option on the Teslas. I miss the Tesla large screen, but CarPlay makes up for it. Most things on the Taycan I got used to, the one thing which still bugs me every time I use it is the phone app.

*I've watched quite a few YouTube vids on the car and I am in agreement with some of them talking about unnecessary redundancies in the Taycan. It seems at times, you can perform a function (like lifing or lowering the car) numerous different way. To me, this is a negative and complicates things.

Tesla has different ways of achieving the same things too. Perhaps you didn't realize that once you got used to one way of doing something. Personally I think having more than one way to achieving the same thing is great. Pick the way you like to do it, forget about the others. Personally I love the dedicated button to lift the car when approaching something that could scratch the bottom of the car, way more convenient that through Tesla menus (though you can do it via Taycan menus too if you prefer to use the touch screen and use multiple touches to achieve the same thing which can be done with one touch).

* Homelink - this might be the first thing I am using incorrectly but it was quite easy to set up. Accepting my rolling codes, I synced it and added my location, but it doesn't work like the Model S. In my S, the default is that when I get home, it opens the garage (with an option to "skip") the open feature. The Taycan initiates the Homelink, but I still have to press the button to get it to work. This seems so counter-intutiive, I feel like I must be doing it wrong. To me, the default should always be auto open and auto close. Not so, with how mine is working.

I disabled the auto open/close in the Tesla because it never worked reliably. Taycan transmitter actually works a lot more reliable than all my Teslas. I also didn't want the car to auto open the garage every time I drive by the house not intending to open it. So for me, Taycan popping up a homelink button is the same experience I chose in a Tesla, but I also like the button on the right and if one really wants you can define one of the diamond buttons to trigger it.

* Regen braking - I'm sure this one will probably be controversial but I've been driving an EV now for 7 years. I LOVE them. For me, they are way better than ICE cars, so I don't understand why the Taycan tries so hard to drive like a ICE car when I think it should be proud to drive like an EV. Again... personal opinion but I like the one peddle driving in my Tesla better. Having said that, I have set up accounts for both my wife and I and even though we turn on "recuperative" braking to the full mode, when we come back to the car after its been off, the default goes back to turning it off. Is this something else I am doing it wrong? Why does it not save recuperative braking with my driving profile.

I loved the one pedal driving of Tesla, but after switching to Taycan, I prefer it - Porsche did an excellent job with the blended braking. Is allows Taycan to regen up to 5x the maximum regen rate than a Tesla (which would be unusable via one-pedal scheme), further saving the mechanical brakes. It gives a consistent feel regardless of battery temperature or state of charge (I know Tesla added the simulated regen at one point to provide a more consistent driving experience, not sure how well it works). Note, Taycan always powers up in Normal drive mode which has recuperation disabled. There is a button on the steering wheel to turn it on. Personally I usually switch to Sport mode via the Sport Chrono when I get into the car, which has recuperation enabled. Occasionally when I drive on rough roads, I switch to Normal and enable the recuperation via the steering wheel button. I am still confused why they cannot save the last driving mode and/or last driving mode per drive profile. Taycan user experience is just not that refined.

* FM Radio "favourites". I had hit a bunch of stations as favourites but I can't find how you get to favourites or even FM presets. This isn't huge because I primarily use Spotify and even though the UI on Tesla's Spotify is far superior, the Taycan is sufficient.

The Taycan radio is horrible in terms of usability. The only UX that is worse is the charging profiles/timers.

* The App... the My Porsche App looks better but I haven't used it enough to give a valid opinion. The Tesla app works wonderfully but looks dated and maybe too simple.

Tesla App is so much more functional and reliable than the MyPorsche App. Personally I care about function over form, so I don't care if it looks dated. Biggest difference is that Tesla connects to the car in real time, Porsche sends messages via server which relay information, cache it, repeat it, generally so much less usable. One pet peeve of mile for MyPorsche is it goes into Privacy Mode when I travel, even though I didn't enable it and it's in fact not enabled in the car, but it result in inability to use MyPorsche for few hours.

Long story short... even though my Tesla is 7 years old, it is still light years ahead of the Taycan in technology and ease of use.

When it comes to user experience/interaction with the electronics, hands down, Tesla wins. For example, why does the Taycan need the stupid ON/OFF ignition button? Even though you can avoid using it most of the times, there will be times when you get into the car and you have to hit it, and other times when you get out of the car and it will not let you lock it, you have to go back in and hit the OFF button. Don't even get me started on the OTA experience and capabilities.

So, this is where the Taycan is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Tesla. The ride is smoother, the steering is tight and responsive, it corners like it's on rails, the accelaration is better than my 90D. It is in virtually every driving metric I care about better than the Model S. In fact, it's not even close. Now, keep in mind, my Model S doesn't have air suspension and is 7 years old but I'm 99.9% sure I will feel the same way even when I get the new one.

This is where the Taycan shines. I switched from P85DL, so the Taycan Turbo has about the same acceleration (4S felt sluggish in the highways, so once you get your new Model S, it will definitely have better acceleration than the Taycan 4S). The handing is not even in the same league. They are both very heavy vehicles, but the Taycan just handles so much better. RAS option on the Taycan makes it feel smaller, even though it's the same size as the Model S. I remember driving my P85DL (it had the original sport plus suspension which was more precise than the standard air we had on my wife's Model S), it felt so unprecise after driving the Taycan for a month (and ~4.5K miles).

The steering wheel on my S is like something you'd find on a 60' sailboat. It's huge and rather ridculous. No matter what mode you put the Tesla in, the steering is loose and way less responsive. I use to think my Tesla drove like it was on rails... until I drove the Taycan.

Handling is the primary reason I chose to buy the Taycan. Had to wait 20 months to get a Turbo because I didn't want a step down from Model S power. The one thing I really wish is for Porsche not to lock away significant power behind Launch Mode - it should be available on demand when you floor the accelerator like in a Tesla. A Taycan 4S without Launch Mode will easily be beat from the lights by a soccer mom with a load of kids on the back of her Model S, Model X, even Model 3 Performance or Model Y Performance. Even with Launch Mode you might need GTS or higher to beat a 3/Y Performance, definitely will not beat the S/X Plaid. Heck, even a higher end Mustang MachE will out-accelerate a Taycan Turbo not in Launch Mode.

Range... the Taycan is interesting because the range actually means something. For those who have one, you understand that the range KM on a Tesla is like a lurid Elon Musk choose your own adventure book. You never really know what you're getting in range.

Taycan range guesstimator is pretty good. It takes a few miles to calibrate to your driving style, but it's pretty close to what you can expect. I never once managed to get the rated from my any of my Model S'es, even when I tried.

Braking... yeah, do I really even need to discuss braking? I mean, my Model S does have brakes and I think that's where the comparison ends.

Yea, I've experienced brake fade on a handful of occasions on the Model S, not fun.

I was going to make a separate category for "fit and finish" but I think that would be silly. The Taycan is put together they way you expect from a car at this price point. My Model S is put together like it was assembled by some toddlers who were exposed to some edible cannibis.

The older Model S'es were simple but still more luxurious. Today's version seems like a plastic replica of a luxury car. My wife really wanted a Model X to replace her 2018 Model S. Test driving the X cured her of it, even though she loved her 2018 Model S. Yoke didn't help either (rounded or not) - even that felt like cheap plastic. The yoke was the primary reason I stopped buying Teslas for me - I would have bought or leased a plaid for the 20 months waiting for the Taycan, but test driving it convinced me it's time to move on.

Seats... I've always really liked my seats in the Tesla, but the Taycan are far superior (IMO) as are the interior materials inside the car.

I love my 18-way seats holding me in place when driving spiritedly. None of the Model S'es could do that.

I hope you enjoy your Taycan. If you plan on switching between it and a Model S, you might find it irritating. Model S will remind of Taycan usability shortcomings, and Taycan will highlight the inferior handling and interior of the Model S, and its range indicator.

 

[SergeyIndy]

Another great post on the differences by @whitex between the two. I have never driven a Tesla, so I do not know what I may be missing. OP basically trying to figure out if Tesla does this, how can you do it in the Taycan. One thing I am not seeing more of or actually very few is Tesla Model S, or large sedans in general on the road but we sure have boat loads of 3 and Y. Taycan to me is in a different league and after 2k miles I love everything about it, with some adjustments from previous common experiences needed, so what the OP is going through is just a normal growing into the Taycan phase.

Specific to the topics, natural driving feel of coasting and then user controlling Regen via On/Auto/Off is perfect to me, knowing call it factory intelligent Regen is always on outside of that control.

Automatic open/close of garage or the car itself I would not like, so having to approach and reach for the handle (turned off the extended comfort setting) with intent or pressing a diamond button to open 1 garage door works for me.

Also, stretched for the Turbo for my needs, having test driven on multiple days and routes a Base and 4S to see if they would fit. For sure, having Launch Mode power available otherwise would be helpful, no question.

Range and Charging not an issue for around town or my out of town needs with multiple long test drives completed before making a purchase.

 

[Svaba]

After a decade of driving Tesla (all Model S, 2013, 2015, 2017, 2018) I switched our household to Taycan and Q8 eTron. Some comments on your first impressions, as I went through it less than a year ago. I chose to pick my Taycan up on the other side of the country so that I can drive it home 3,500 miles to get to know it. Having done coast-to-coast with the Model S, the EV part was not scaring me.

By far, Tesla UI is way more intuitive and usable. That said, you will probably learn to appreciate a few touch buttons on the instrument cluster (most useful one being raising the suspension) or Sport Chrono drive mode selector (if you have one), and last but not least, wireless Apple CarPlay or Android Auto integration - something Teslas cannot beat, Elon cannot fund as many apps as there are apps available for smarphones. For example, I like to use waze, with warnings about hazards on the roads, no such option on the Teslas. I miss the Tesla large screen, but CarPlay makes up for it. Most things on the Taycan I got used to, the one thing which still bugs me every time I use it is the phone app.


Tesla has different ways of achieving the same things too. Perhaps you didn't realize that once you got used to one way of doing something. Personally I think having more than one way to achieving the same thing is great. Pick the way you like to do it, forget about the others. Personally I love the dedicated button to lift the car when approaching something that could scratch the bottom of the car, way more convenient that through Tesla menus (though you can do it via Taycan menus too if you prefer to use the touch screen and use multiple touches to achieve the same thing which can be done with one touch).


I disabled the auto open/close in the Tesla because it never worked reliably. Taycan transmitter actually works a lot more reliable than all my Teslas. I also didn't want the car to auto open the garage every time I drive by the house not intending to open it. So for me, Taycan popping up a homelink button is the same experience I chose in a Tesla, but I also like the button on the right and if one really wants you can define one of the diamond buttons to trigger it.


I loved the one pedal driving of Tesla, but after switching to Taycan, I prefer it - Porsche did an excellent job with the blended braking. Is allows Taycan to regen up to 5x the maximum regen rate than a Tesla (which would be unusable via one-pedal scheme), further saving the mechanical brakes. It gives a consistent feel regardless of battery temperature or state of charge (I know Tesla added the simulated regen at one point to provide a more consistent driving experience, not sure how well it works). Note, Taycan always powers up in Normal drive mode which has recuperation disabled. There is a button on the steering wheel to turn it on. Personally I usually switch to Sport mode via the Sport Chrono when I get into the car, which has recuperation enabled. Occasionally when I drive on rough roads, I switch to Normal and enable the recuperation via the steering wheel button. I am still confused why they cannot save the last driving mode and/or last driving mode per drive profile. Taycan user experience is just not that refined.


The Taycan radio is horrible in terms of usability. The only UX that is worse is the charging profiles/timers.


Tesla App is so much more functional and reliable than the MyPorsche App. Personally I care about function over form, so I don't care if it looks dated. Biggest difference is that Tesla connects to the car in real time, Porsche sends messages via server which relay information, cache it, repeat it, generally so much less usable. One pet peeve of mile for MyPorsche is it goes into Privacy Mode when I travel, even though I didn't enable it and it's in fact not enabled in the car, but it result in inability to use MyPorsche for few hours.


When it comes to user experience/interaction with the electronics, hands down, Tesla wins. For example, why does the Taycan need the stupid ON/OFF ignition button? Even though you can avoid using it most of the times, there will be times when you get into the car and you have to hit it, and other times when you get out of the car and it will not let you lock it, you have to go back in and hit the OFF button. Don't even get me started on the OTA experience and capabilities.


This is where the Taycan shines. I switched from P85DL, so the Taycan Turbo has about the same acceleration (4S felt sluggish in the highways, so once you get your new Model S, it will definitely have better acceleration than the Taycan 4S). The handing is not even in the same league. They are both very heavy vehicles, but the Taycan just handles so much better. RAS option on the Taycan makes it feel smaller, even though it's the same size as the Model S. I remember driving my P85DL (it had the original sport plus suspension which was more precise than the standard air we had on my wife's Model S), it felt so unprecise after driving the Taycan for a month (and ~4.5K miles).


Handling is the primary reason I chose to buy the Taycan. Had to wait 20 months to get a Turbo because I didn't want a step down from Model S power. The one thing I really wish is for Porsche not to lock away significant power behind Launch Mode - it should be available on demand when you floor the accelerator like in a Tesla. A Taycan 4S without Launch Mode will easily be beat from the lights by a soccer mom with a load of kids on the back of her Model S, Model X, even Model 3 Performance or Model Y Performance. Even with Launch Mode you might need GTS or higher to beat a 3/Y Performance, definitely will not beat the S/X Plaid. Heck, even a higher end Mustang MachE will out-accelerate a Taycan Turbo not in Launch Mode.


Taycan range guesstimator is pretty good. It takes a few miles to calibrate to your driving style, but it's pretty close to what you can expect. I never once managed to get the rated from my any of my Model S'es, even when I tried.


Yea, I've experienced brake fade on a handful of occasions on the Model S, not fun.


The older Model S'es were simple but still more luxurious. Today's version seems like a plastic replica of a luxury car. My wife really wanted a Model X to replace her 2018 Model S. Test driving the X cured her of it, even though she loved her 2018 Model S. Yoke didn't help either (rounded or not) - even that felt like cheap plastic. The yoke was the primary reason I stopped buying Teslas for me - I would have bought or leased a plaid for the 20 months waiting for the Taycan, but test driving it convinced me it's time to move on.


I love my 18-way seats holding me in place when driving spiritedly. None of the Model S'es could do that.

I hope you enjoy your Taycan. If you plan on switching between it and a Model S, you might find it irritating. Model S will remind of Taycan usability shortcomings, and Taycan will highlight the inferior handling and interior of the Model S, and its range indicator.

Thank you. This was a really thoughtful and comprehensive reply.
The one fact that you mention which I hadn’t contemplated, which is a big deal is the use of Waze via CarPlay or Android Auto. That’s a big positive for me, especially in a city like Toronto where traffic is a nightmare. I found the Taycan navigation to be less clear and hasn’t always chosen the optimal route considering traffic.

Does Waze offer EV charging integrated into their Nav? I’ve never had to try it but that would be cool.

 

[Svaba]

Another great post on the differences by @whitex between the two. I have never driven a Tesla, so I do not know what I may be missing. OP basically trying to figure out if Tesla does this, how can you do it in the Taycan. One thing I am not seeing more of or actually very few is Tesla Model S, or large sedans in general on the road but we sure have boat loads of 3 and Y. Taycan to me is in a different league and after 2k miles I love everything about it, with some adjustments from previous common experiences needed, so what the OP is going through is just a normal growing into the Taycan phase.

Specific to the topics, natural driving feel of coasting and then user controlling Regen via On/Auto/Off is perfect to me, knowing call it factory intelligent Regen is always on outside of that control.

Automatic open/close of garage or the car itself I would not like, so having to approach and reach for the handle (turned off the extended comfort setting) with intent or pressing a diamond button to open 1 garage door works for me.

Also, stretched for the Turbo for my needs, having test driven on multiple days and routes a Base and 4S to see if they would fit. For sure, having Launch Mode power available otherwise would be helpful, no question.

Range and Charging not an issue for around town or my out of town needs with multiple long test drives completed before making a purchase.

The home link thing is simply a small convenience item which I’ve grown accustomed to and love. We garage Park all of our cars (otherwise they have a knack of going missing overnight), so having that feature is a nice. Mine has always worked quite reliably.

 

[Svaba]

Next question....maybe I'm not understanding but I have a feeling I think I know what is going on...

So, we got the 93.4KW battery. We charge the car to 85%. When we do, it shows a range of around 300km, which doesn't really jive with what I expected from reading online. I had read some people saying 318 miles at 85%, so you can imagine my surprise.

I had read online that I should expect around 400km at 85%. Is it possible accounting for the fact that it's being driven hard or is there something in the settings?

 

[whitex]

Does Waze offer EV charging integrated into their Nav? I’ve never had to try it but that would be cool.

Not at the moment. Apple Maps does. You have to link it to your MyPorsche account though so it can retrieve real time SoC info from the car.

PS> Another thing you cannot do with the Model S, open your trunk by waving your foot under the rear bumper. I might take a little practice, but once you figure it out, very useful feature. Hopefully you won't end up kicking the rear bumper of the new Model S when it comes

 

[Jhenson29]

I had read some people saying 318 miles at 85%

Where did you read that?

 

[Svaba]

Where did you read that?

The cheaper 79kWh unit offers a usable capacity of 71kWh and a range of between 276 miles (Taycan) and 282 miles (Taycan 4S), while the bigger 93kWh battery (with nearly 84kWh usable capacity) boosts this to 314 and 318 miles respectively.
https://www.drivingelectric.com/por...Wh unit offers,314 and 318 miles respectively.

 

[Jhenson29]

The cheaper 79kWh unit offers a usable capacity of 71kWh and a range of between 276 miles (Taycan) and 282 miles (Taycan 4S), while the bigger 93kWh battery (with nearly 84kWh usable capacity) boosts this to 314 and 318 miles respectively.
https://www.drivingelectric.com/porsche/taycan/range#:~:text=The cheaper 79kWh unit offers,314 and 318 miles respectively.

That’s doesn’t says “318 miles at 85%” though. That’s at 100%. And frankly, a best case.

That same article also says:

The Taycan’s longest official range figures exceed the 300-mile mark, but the reality is that the bigger-battery models will likely do 230-250 miles in warmer weather with varied use. Cold weather affects the range of all electric cars, so expect around 200 miles from the smaller-battery models when the temperature drops.

In terms of real-world efficiency, we saw around 2.5 miles per kWh from the Turbo S in the mild, dry conditions that we drove it in; provided you don't drive it too hard, that equates to a range of 210 miles from the usable battery capacity of 84kWh. The Taycan and Taycan 4S will go a little further than that if you opt for the bigger battery – we found 220-230 miles easily achievable, even with a heavier-than-normal right foot.

 

[Svaba]

That’s doesn’t says “318 miles at 85%” though. That’s at 100%. And frankly, a best case.

That same article also says:

Yeah, I'm certain I saw it at 85% but that's neither here nor there, my question really is, "is that what they recorded he got" or is "what what the car says".

318 miles is about 512km and mine would likely show about 340-350km at 100%. Just trying to check if something is wrong or if mine is normal?

 

[Jhenson29]

Yeah, I'm certain I saw it at 85% but that's neither here nor there

It’s not here nor there. It’s a ridiculous figure for the car with no basis in anything.

Just trying to check if something is wrong or if mine is normal?

…and what do you think after the section I quoted from the same article?

And some more light reading for you:

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/271-miles-100-charged-what’s-your-range-shown.11337/

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