? PCM 6 Update Announcement [Update: Retrofit Being Explored For Existing Taycans]

[feye]

But I prefer wild speculation...

I heard from my cousin's friend's dad that the update actually boosts range to 500 miles, and runs a bitcoin miner so that when you stop for charging, it's always free. You can trust him, he's the janitor in the CEO's office, always picking up what's going on behind the scenes.

Careful, our friend EM is reading this and will start selling it...

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[Ambroos]

It seems very unlikely that Porsche will end all updates on older models. That is just too early, and would rightfully cause a storm of protest. This isent a 10.000K Datsun, so we can and should expect more.

I think Porsche will release the new update to new cars and then to MY22. After this they will need time to adjust the update to older cars, and release to those with reduced functionality for instance no native Spotify etc., if the old hardware cant handle that.

But Im sure all will get this update, but older model further down the road and with reduced functionality.

This must be your first Volkswagen group car ?

 

[Sparky]

Amen!

I couldnt find the SSP 679 now, but i know i've read it earlier.

Our PCM6 system is, as you mention, more or less identical to the Audi MIB3 system. The sticker on the PCM unit even states this. While the Audi MIB 2+ system seems to be related to the PCM5 system, although thats not really relevant to this particular discussion.

So far I havent been able to find a specific cut-off date as to when the 9J1 main unit was "discarded" in favour of the PAD main units. All I've found so far is that it states "model year 2022 onwards" for the PAD main units.

I just got the VIN number for my Taycan CT earlier today, and it does indeed have the PAD main unit.

What code/letter in the VIN tells you that your car has the PAD PCM? Thx.

 

[Jonmar]

Read this on news7h.com:
Porsche says all of these updates will be available to new production models, starting at some point in the next few weeks. However, it did not provide details on when cars already in production would receive the features. Porsche has said in the past that its PCM 6.0 infotainment system will receive constant updates to keep the software up to date, so it’s only a matter of time before current cars yet with PCM 6.0 get the upgrade.

So I think all cars already ordered but not built yet will be getting the new 6.0 straight away.
My ordered ST should end production 2nd week of april, so I'm rather confident that it will have the new one.

Amen!

I couldnt find the SSP 679 now, but i know i've read it earlier.

Our PCM6 system is, as you mention, more or less identical to the Audi MIB3 system. The sticker on the PCM unit even states this. While the Audi MIB 2+ system seems to be related to the PCM5 system, although thats not really relevant to this particular discussion.

So far I havent been able to find a specific cut-off date as to when the 9J1 main unit was "discarded" in favour of the PAD main units. All I've found so far is that it states "model year 2022 onwards" for the PAD main units.

I just got the VIN number for my Taycan CT earlier today, and it does indeed have the PAD main unit.

Do you mind me asking where you got the VIN number? My car shows going into production yesterday but haven’t received a VIN. Thanks

 

[Scandinavian]

People need to realize how every traditional car manufacturer has a completely different relationship with software than Tesla does.

Im still waiting for my Taycan but Ive done a lot of digging on the Jaguar I-Pace as I wrote a third party Android app and Python library and through that work I got to know quite a few people over at JLR Engineering and on the connected car team. All of them shared my frustration when it came to the state of software development at the traditional car manufacturers.

The I-Pace came out in 2018. Fabulous car, terrible infotainment. Jaguar made a huge deal out of the fact that the car supported OTA updates and owners were confident that issues would be resolved over time through those. As time went by, a few minor updates came through and fixed some but not all issues. Then, two years later a completely new infotainment system was introduced with no support for older vehicles and the older infotainment system was now effectively EOL.

Very little infotainment system development is done in-house at these companies. It’s outsourced to third party vendors such as Panasonic with little to no incentives to provide updates over time. Furthermore, since the infotainment system is integrated with a plethora of other vehicle components that are also sourced from various other vendors, testing and QA becomes a huge ordeal, making future updates even more of a pain.

An amusing example from the I-Pace: There is a long standing issue where you’d be frequently logged out of your Jaguar navigation account from the infotainment. The reason was that there was a bug in the way the authentication token was refreshed so every time the token expired it would fail to renew and you’d be logged out. Everyone knew about this bug but it never got fixed. Why? Jaguar turned to Panasonic who turned to Nokia HERE. Nokia blamed Panasonic but Panasonic didn’t lift a finger because their deal with JLR was effectively finished, meaning JLR would have to put more money on table. In the end, no agreement was reached and the bug persists.

JLRs main motivation for adding OTA functionality to begin with was primarily to save costs. By having updates delivered directly to the owner rather than paying the dealer for the 6 hour labor they could save a significant amount of money.

The moral of this story is: Dont think Porsche does what Tesla does. They’re just not operating in a remotely similar manner. If the new PCM update relies on the newer hardware platform it would be very unlikely that older systems get the update. For the I-Pace, what seemed to be just a simple head unit upgrade was in fact a lot more extensive, including a completely new network architecture which simply would not be compatible with older systems.

I have to say we should probably wait to see how Porsche are going to handle this mess. We are speculating a lot in this post just now, so clarification is needed.

I agree with a lot of what you have stated in your post.

However I do not agree with that you shold accept a system that has not been functioning from day 1. The PCM has always been flaky to say the least.

I also can agree that traditional car manufacturers do release new products at product renewal cycles. But I have never heard of a traditional (BMW, Volvo) manufacturer that introduces 3 versions in the same serie of cars. Case in Point. When I bought a BMW 7 series in 2011, I got some updates for their software in the car. And that continued for that generation. When the next generation was introduced a few years later I saw a new navigation etc. and accept that will not be functioning in my car. But that was after some 5 years. Here we are with cars one or two years old that are dysfunctional.

I can also agree with your reflection on how Panasonic and Here, Nokia or now tha German car industry would respond to Jaguar. But sorry to say I think Jaguar should have paid them.

I could do more on my 2016 F10 BMW than I can do with my app for my 2020 Taycan. That shows the laggards that we are supporting. And that BMW was the last one before the refresh.

 

[paladin732]

Anyone looking into legal action if Porsche doesn’t act on this? How many of these items (such as android auto) were promised to 2020/2021 owners that they have to deliver to complete that promise?

 

[Scandinavian]

Anyone looking into legal action if Porsche doesn’t act on this? How many of these items (such as android auto) were promised to 2020/2021 owners that they have to deliver to complete that promise?

Interesting question. I think the legal case will stand for just delivering the basic functionality. So many problems still with the early PCM

 

[Reg]

Anyone looking into legal action if Porsche doesn’t act on this? How many of these items (such as android auto) were promised to 2020/2021 owners that they have to deliver to complete that promise?

none were promised. they were clear about carplay for instance, saying that their research showed that most owners had an apple device.

there is no legal action for not getting an improvement.

if you have problems with your com, that is what the warrantee and lemon laws are for.

 

[paladin732]

none were promised. they were clear about carplay for instance, saying that their research showed that most owners had an apple device.

there is no legal action for not getting an improvement.

if you have problems with your com, that is what the warrantee and lemon laws are for.

If nothing was promised, there is no legal basis. It’s just terrible customer service.

 

[Skilly]

ta-da problem solved.

 

[Skilly]

If nothing was promised, there is no legal basis. It’s just terrible customer service.

Forget the upgrade for a moment, because I think this thread is conflating two issues together. We have the 'upgrade' and the 'bugs' converging in the same topic. Logic would say you manage both with the same release.

That said, just focusing on the current PCM issues, I'm pretty sure that something in working order in the exchange of goods unless otherwise stated as "as is" or "no warranty implied" etc, is legal grounds. Since it isn't working, I would say promise unfulfilled.

And, given the volume of repurchases and buy backs with MY20, I would say Porsche agrees.

 

[paladin732]

Forget the upgrade for a moment, because I think this thread is conflating two issues together. We have the 'upgrade' and the 'bugs' converging in the same topic. Logic would say you manage both with the same release.

That said, just focusing on the current PCM issues, I'm pretty sure that something in working order in the exchange of goods unless otherwise stated as "as is" or "no warranty implied" etc, is legal grounds. Since it isn't working, I would say promise unfulfilled.

And, given the volume of repurchases and buy backs with MY20, I would say Porsche agrees.

There have been a bunch of buybacks on the MY20? Which thread are these in? I'm not a frequent member of this forum anymore, so may have missed those.

 

[Skilly]

There have been a bunch of buybacks on the MY20? Which thread are these in? I'm not a frequent member of this forum anymore, so may have missed those.

just go on CarGurus and search nationally - anything that seems reasonable has either a repurchase or a buyback attached to it. Porsche is even CPO'ing them! - here are a couple of examples:

example 1
example 2
example 3

There are more but these are easy to spot due to the pricing.

 

[raharris]

Forget the upgrade for a moment, because I think this thread is conflating two issues together. We have the 'upgrade' and the 'bugs' converging in the same topic. Logic would say you manage both with the same release.

That said, just focusing on the current PCM issues, I'm pretty sure that something in working order in the exchange of goods unless otherwise stated as "as is" or "no warranty implied" etc, is legal grounds. Since it isn't working, I would say promise unfulfilled.

And, given the volume of repurchases and buy backs with MY20, I would say Porsche agrees.

I agree the issues are being mixed, but logic would not dictate that you manage in the same release.

It is possible that later versions of the PCM software would only be supported on the later generation PCM hardware; this means that for bug fixes on earlier versions, they would be managed in a separate code branch and delivered as a separate release.

Regression test plans for a bug on an existing release are quite often not the same as full end to end testing on a new release which incorporates new functionality (and potentially supporting newer/different hardware).

I personally expect the bugs to be fixed in my PCM; however, I have no expectation of receiving features delivered after my vehicle build date. This is like being pissed that you brought a car with the pano roof only to find out they shortly released the adjustable pano roof; or buying a turbo weeks before they announce the GTS.

Just because it is software, doesn't mean its free - Porsche have to spend engineering euros on developing new features and it should not be unreasonable for them to expect a return on that investment in the form of people upgrading their vehicle or winning sales from non-Porsche customers.

Just my $0.2 from someone whose salary comes from customer's buying software; we don't give it away. Our customers get charged a monthly fee for the privilege of getting new features in later releases. Not sure people on this forum want to be charged a monthly fee for PCM

 

[batteredhaddock]

.......

I personally expect the bugs to be fixed in my PCM; however, I have no expectation of receiving features delivered after my vehicle build date. This is like being pissed that you brought a car with the pano roof only to find out they shortly released the adjustable pano roof; or buying a turbo weeks before they announce the GTS.
........

Just my $0.2 from someone whose salary comes from customer's buying software; we don't give it away. Our customers get charged a monthly fee for the privilege of getting new features in later releases. Not sure people on this forum want to be charged a monthly fee for PCM

Likewise, I'm not fussed about new features but I do want bugs fixed.

That being said " Not sure people on this forum want to be charged a monthly fee for PCM " .......what are you saying, I've already paid my subscription in advance by having had to pay for folding mirrors on a vehicle the width of a bus... ;-)

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