? PCM 6 Update Announcement [Update: Retrofit Being Explored For Existing Taycans]

[nafzal80]

agreed,. but it is at the heart of the problem. updating the nav algo, or adding color icons should be able to be done to all cars / all years. 100% agree.

different hardware versions are apparently creating issues for the release of the update to all. since they haven't broken the update out into small components they can't provide an answer as to whether the update will work on old cars or not.

so, unfortunately, you can't divorce the two. agility is the answer to the problem and porshe isn't taking an agility driven approach. hence the lack of clarity and customer frustration.

I am a long time architect. On the point of divorcing the two, I can assure you every case is unique. They may be able to upgrade us to the new infotainment / pcm software without a hardware upgrade or they may not be able to. We do not know. My GUESS is they are attempting to release a version of the software that does not require a hardware upgrade. And if they can’t do that, they will have to go the route of hardware and software upgrades serviced through our dealerships. I am guessing though. Alternatively the hardware needed to upgrade the pcm in our cars could be in limited supply, and they are working through some supply chain issues first before getting back to us. Who knows.

I agree about the lack of clarity and proper messaging, it’s causing a lot of customer frustration. Completely stupid move by Porsche, gives the impression that new customers who cars are in production matter more. My car left the factory on November 20th, i guess I am of lower priority to Porsche? Total BS.

in summary:

When 2020 to 2022 Taycans customers asked “what about us?”

Porsches response:
“well you won’t get the newer release”
“oh we didn’t realize you would be upset”
“Ok ok, now that we know you are upset, give us some time, we will get back to you”

Complete intentional nonsense by Porsche or they don’t have there act together are stupid. Who knows.

I think Porsche is going through some severe growing pains in executing and messaging around software delivery. I think (and hope) they will figure it out and they will do what’s right.

Sponsored

 

[nafzal80]

i pretty much agree with you. i'm not suggesting massive UI changes every week. updating the nav algo to improve charging on trip wouldn't require learning anything new, nor would a bug fix, nor would adding color icons. changing out one component in your rack of equipment, one upgrading the software on one piece is much easier to do than buying all new gear at one and installing a new OS on the stack.

i too am an IT guy, spent many years on both the infrastructure and development side. AWS is a perfect example, they have thousands of releases a year to their platform, they dont try to do a massive udpate once a year. its this very reason, their agility, that they are the #1 in the space and have completely crushed the legacy installed base of Microsoft, IBM, Oracle etc. like them or not, Tesla is doing the same to the auto industry.

i think tesla has pretty much nailed it on the sofware side, latest UI update aside. they constantly release minor updates or add a piece of functionality and then once every 12-18 months a more significant update.

i enjoyed getting the bugs fixed of course, and getting into my car to find i now had access to spotify, or youtube, or a new game, or the cameras being able to be used for dashcam etc, allowed incremental changes to avoid the upheaval you indicate when a major update happens. agree, major changes can be problematic from a UI / end user experience.

take that major change and add in the complexity of testing across multiple versions of hardware and you have a mess - where porsche now finds itself with the subject of this thread.

Hmm I think this is Porsche’s only major PCM release in the last 12 to 18 months (or longer).

They have done minor patches within that period. Haven’t they? I could be wrong.

I can’t imagine this major release to be just about new features. My hope is that it addresses the random issues we face with it.

 

[scav]

Can I just point out that VAG has been having serious issues hiring enough software engineers for years now. I’m sure this also impacts the available talent pool Porsche has to pick from. Let’s not underplay this problem. From experience the consequences of that can be really hard to mitigate and deliveries will suffer.

Personally I would love to work for Porsche in this capacity and bring my years of experience, but they don’t appear to be looking for remote workers.

 

[nafzal80]

Can I just point out that VAG has been having serious issues hiring enough software engineers for years now. I’m sure this also impacts the available talent pool Porsche has to pick from. Let’s not underplay this problem. From experience the consequences of that can be really hard to mitigate and deliveries will suffer.

I think this is may be a major factor!

Part of the growing pains point I made earlier too.

 

[Perry]

Hmm I think this is Porsche’s only major PCM release in the last 12 to 18 months (or longer).

They have done minor patches within that period. Haven’t they? I could be wrong.

I can’t imagine this major release to be just about new features. My hope is that it addresses the random issues we face with it.

This is actually the second major PCM update for MY22. The first one was with wired Android Auto, improved voice commands, new navigation and customisable app launcher (the 5 icons on the left, whatever they call it).

 

[nickmdp]

i pretty much agree with you. i'm not suggesting massive UI changes every week. updating the nav algo to improve charging on trip wouldn't require learning anything new, nor would a bug fix, nor would adding color icons. changing out one component in your rack of equipment, one upgrading the software on one piece is much easier to do than buying all new gear at one and installing a new OS on the stack.

i too am an IT guy, spent many years on both the infrastructure and development side. AWS is a perfect example, they have thousands of releases a year to their platform, they dont try to do a massive udpate once a year. its this very reason, their agility, that they are the #1 in the space and have completely crushed the legacy installed base of Microsoft, IBM, Oracle etc. like them or not, Tesla is doing the same to the auto industry.

i think tesla has pretty much nailed it on the sofware side, latest UI update aside. they constantly release minor updates or add a piece of functionality and then once every 12-18 months a more significant update.

i enjoyed getting the bugs fixed of course, and getting into my car to find i now had access to spotify, or youtube, or a new game, or the cameras being able to be used for dashcam etc, allowed incremental changes to avoid the upheaval you indicate when a major update happens. agree, major changes can be problematic from a UI / end user experience.

take that major change and add in the complexity of testing across multiple versions of hardware and you have a mess - where porsche now finds itself with the subject of this thread.

No, you misunderstand, I don't want anything changing OTA. Not the colors, not the algorithms, nothing. That agility you mention with AWS is a risk in my mind when it comes to cars, in that any change introduces risk. The faster you can push out changes, the faster you can cause widespread issues.

I know, I know, "But that means they can fix issues faster too!" you'll say. In my mind, either the car is working and I'm driving it, or it isn't and it's in the shop, no in between. It would be like trying to get OTA updates for a pacemaker. If something is that wrong that it needs fixing, I'm going to the doctor, not just sitting at home.

All of this isn't to say you're wrong, simply that there are perfectly valid reasons to not want that behavior around updates. I ordered a Taycan specifically because it wasn't a Tesla, including in how they manage the software.

 

[nafzal80]

No, you misunderstand, I don't want anything changing OTA. Not the colors, not the algorithms, nothing. That agility you mention with AWS is a risk in my mind when it comes to cars, in that any change introduces risk. The faster you can push out changes, the faster you can cause widespread issues.

I know, I know, "But that means they can fix issues faster too!" you'll say. In my mind, either the car is working and I'm driving it, or it isn't and it's in the shop, no in between. It would be like trying to get OTA updates for a pacemaker. If something is that wrong that it needs fixing, I'm going to the doctor, not just sitting at home.

All of this isn't to say you're wrong, simply that there are perfectly valid reasons to not want that behavior around updates. I ordered a Taycan specifically because it wasn't a Tesla, including in how they manage the software.

I feel like you are talking in theory rather than being specific about the matter at hand with Porsche and this PCM infotainment issue.

So lets go backwards and let Tesla / Rivian etc be agile and iterative while the rest go back to old habits? There are pros and conts for both, but the pros outweigh the cons. NHTSA and others role is to oversee issues and govern them, they are behind but need to be the ones staying ahead of this. Safety and being cautious is not a reason to stop innovation. That's silly. The point is to encourage innovation in autos RESPONSIBILY by governing it, not to slow it down out of fear.

But let me be clear here. We aren't expecting Porsche to push updates at the pace Tesla does (I am a techy, but I don't want my car to be a computer first and a car second), but they need to be better at this than they are at the moment.

 

[stirthepot]

No, you misunderstand, I don't want anything changing OTA. Not the colors, not the algorithms, nothing. That agility you mention with AWS is a risk in my mind when it comes to cars, in that any change introduces risk. The faster you can push out changes, the faster you can cause widespread issues.

I know, I know, "But that means they can fix issues faster too!" you'll say. In my mind, either the car is working and I'm driving it, or it isn't and it's in the shop, no in between. It would be like trying to get OTA updates for a pacemaker. If something is that wrong that it needs fixing, I'm going to the doctor, not just sitting at home.

All of this isn't to say you're wrong, simply that there are perfectly valid reasons to not want that behavior around updates. I ordered a Taycan specifically because it wasn't a Tesla, including in how they manage the software.

then you bought the wrong car. its an OTA vehicle.

 

[nafzal80]

then you bought the wrong car. its an OTA vehicle.

Boom! Good point. It is an OTA vehicle. Find one that isn't OTA and buy that.

 

[scav]

Boom! Good point. It is an OTA vehicle. Find one that isn't OTA and buy that.

But we all did, it’s the taycan…

 

[nafzal80]

But we all did, it’s the taycan…

Hopefully if Porsche get's there act together, it will become an OTA car.

 

[nickmdp]

I feel like you are talking in theory rather than being specific about the matter at hand with Porsche and this PCM infotainment issue.

So lets go backwards and let Tesla / Rivian etc be agile and iterative while the rest go back to old habits? There are pros and conts for both, but the pros outweigh the cons. NHTSA and others role is to oversee issues and govern them, they are behind but need to be the ones staying ahead of this. Safety and being cautious is not a reason to stop innovation. That's silly. The point is to encourage innovation in autos RESPONSIBILY by governing it, not to slow it down out of fear.

But let me be clear here. We aren't expecting Porsche to push updates at the pace Tesla does (I am a techy, but I don't want my car to be a computer first and a car second), but they need to be better at this than they are at the moment.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I am mine as well. If I found that my GTS missed out on the PCM update, I honestly wouldn't care one bit. Am I suggesting that it's a bad idea for Porsche to roll this update out to older models? No, I'm simply posting here to make it clear that there are people that don't share the same views on how tech updates should work in cars. A couple posts decided to chide me for buying a car that has OTA updates if I don't like OTA updates, but as I'm sure everyone here realizes, a car purchase is almost never driven by a single point like that.

My main comment was directed at a person suggesting multiple updates per month, which I find to be excessive, not so that I could somehow cast stones at everyone complaining about not getting the update.

 

[kreshi]

Cannot wait for Porsche to finally announce either that everyone is getting the update or nobody and it's just new cars. Just to get all this hard speculation out of the thread.

 

[TAYC4S]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I am mine as well. If I found that my GTS missed out on the PCM update, I honestly wouldn't care one bit. Am I suggesting that it's a bad idea for Porsche to roll this update out to older models? No, I'm simply posting here to make it clear that there are people that don't share the same views on how tech updates should work in cars. A couple posts decided to chide me for buying a car that has OTA updates if I don't like OTA updates, but as I'm sure everyone here realizes, a car purchase is almost never driven by a single point like that.

My main comment was directed at a person suggesting multiple updates per month, which I find to be excessive, not so that I could somehow cast stones at everyone complaining about not getting the update.

Whilst I would like the updates to eventually roll down to all models I know that this might not happen or indeed be possible if there are specific h/w dependencies. However, I also agree that this doesn’t bother me so much. I would be far more bothered if after 8+ years a Porsche Taycan still looked the same as it does today. For me, seeing model evolution beyond only s/w tweaking is more interesting. Finally, I always remind myself that Porsche is all about motorsport heritage being applied to vehicles we are fortunate to own/drive ?

 

[Artman]

Build week, 3rd of 2022. Would be the week starting January 17th.

Which leaves me in a weird position, my car entered production the 14th and finished the 20th ?.

Identical dates for me...