Porsche says “significant price increases” coming middle of this year

[whitex]

I have a hard time believing that a „significant price increase“ is actually coming this year.

Already live in the configurators, hard to believe or not.
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/taycan-price-increased.15324/

Tesla has sold more vehicles in the US than the entirety of Volkswagen has last year.

VW group reports selling 2,206,400 cars word-wide in 2022, Tesla reported US sales 484,351. Perhaps you missed a 0 somewhere?

Sponsored

 

[AutobahnGTS]

VW group reports selling 2,206,400 cars word-wide in 2022, Tesla reported US sales 484,351. Perhaps you missed a 0 somewhere?

I made a mistake, correct. It’s not last year, but Q1 2023. World Wide and US sales are not the same, and Tesla is selling more in the US in Q1 of 2023, than the entirety of VAG, including ICE, PHEV and BEV:

https://insideevs.com/news/659479/tesla-to-top-vw-bmw-and-mercedes-in-us-sales-in-q1-2023-cox/amp/

Regardless, I’ll eat my words regarding the price hike. My car config has gone up €6k somewhen in the past week or so.
although I look foolish now for bloviating on about this being unlikely, I am happy for the value of my car.
However, I don’t think this is the right move for Porsche for the aforementioned reasons.

 

[Hirschaj]

I have a hard time believing that a „significant price increase“ is actually coming this year.

The Taycan is pretty „old“ by now, and a quick google search as well as asking your local dealer will reveal, that a facelifted version is due to be revealed in 2024.
The updates since the start (eg. DCU on the front axle) are relatively poorly communicated, so most new buyers will likely think “I am buying 2019 tech with this car”.

Porsche did not have the best 2022 regarding sales and deliveries of the taycan. Porsche says it’s the shortage of supplies, I don’t know if that’s the only reason.
Tesla has sold more vehicles in the US than the entirety of Volkswagen has last year.
VW and Mercedes just had to slash prices in china due to lackluster demand.
Tesla did the same in the US.

I don’t want to paint a bleak future, I just don’t see how a “significant price hike” would be at all realistic in the current situation.

Makes more sense to have the price go up with a potential facelift, where I am getting new things (like a larger battery).

This post from…today… did not age well

 

[xyeahtony]

Tesla has sold more vehicles in the US than the entirety of Volkswagen has last year.

This is absolutely not true at all lol.

Tesla delivered 1.31million vehicles TOTAL for 2022.

VW Group delivered 842,300 cars in Dec 2022 alone. Average that out and multiply by 12...

20230110_Deliveries_Tables (volkswagenag.com)

Feb 2023 is 611,600.

20230316_Deliveries_Tables.pdf (volkswagenag.com)


Tesla hasn't released 2023 Q1 delivery numbers yet, but wall street is expecting 432k cars. Thats 432k cars total in 3 months.
Tesla Stock Has Gained 57% In 2023; Could A Q1 Deliveries Beat Take It Higher? | Investor's Business Daily (investors.com)

VW delivered 611k cars in ONE month

Where on earth are you getting your information from?

 

[AutobahnGTS]

This is absolutely not true at all lol.

Tesla delivered 1.31million vehicles TOTAL for 2022.

VW Group delivered 842,300 cars in Dec 2022 alone. Average that out and multiply by 12...

20230110_Deliveries_Tables (volkswagenag.com)

Feb 2023 is 611,600.

20230316_Deliveries_Tables.pdf (volkswagenag.com)


Tesla hasn't released 2023 Q1 delivery numbers yet, but wall street is expecting 432k cars. Thats 432k cars total in 3 months.
Tesla Stock Has Gained 57% In 2023; Could A Q1 Deliveries Beat Take It Higher? | Investor's Business Daily (investors.com)

VW delivered 611k cars in ONE month

Where on earth are you getting your information from?

Dude, just chill.
As I already clarified, I meant to say „Tesla has sold more vehicles in the US last year, than Volkswagen Group sold in the US last year.“
Sales ≠ Deliveries, US ≠ entire world.
In 2022, I can only find a figure of 498,566 cars for Volkswagen AG in the United States.
According to the same data, Tesla sold 37,503 more vehicles in the same time frame and market:
https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2023-us-auto-sales-figures-by-manufacturer/

Deliveries on the other hand were likely in favor of Volkswagen, with 631,000 in the United States (https://www.best-selling-cars.com/b...n-group-sales-worldwide-by-brand-and-country/). I did not find a figure for Tesla, but that should be closer to 500,000.

I am not a Tesla fanboy, nor do I want to portray Volkswagen as bad. I am just stating, that Tesla is outgrowing one of the biggest car makers in the world, in one of the key markets. Of course, United States is by far Tesla‘s best market, and Volkswagen has a much larger presence in basically all the other markets. However, for me, it is an indication that Volkswagen is struggling a little, and one of the many factors might be pricing, that is perceived as „Not competitive“. Porsche obviously isnt their volume brand, but price increases are unlikely to help the matter at hand.

 

[or1]

Very interesting discussion. I got my GTS Sport Turismo in December 22, and I don't mind a price increase now... Seriously, if Porsche find that they can get more out of selling less cars at higher prices, I am fine with that. It only works as long as enough people think their prices are acceptable for what they get, but generally it seems so now doesn't it?

And regarding the tech development: I personally don't care about self-driving. I am more nervous supervising the car than when I do the driving myself. I am mostly in the group with f1eng there - but I do like ACC sometimes. That the general driving public prefers more autonomy I can understand, but I would expect many Porsche drivers to think differently, and that Porsche consequently also should.

Finally: I normally keep a car for many years (although there have been exceptions). I expect a Porsche, even my Taycan, to allow that. If I need, or find it worth it, to have a new battery before 2030, so be it. But I can imagine the rest of the car being both great to drive and fully reliable for longer than that - even though there may come even better models as the years go by.

 

[tchavei]

Very interesting discussion. I got my GTS Sport Turismo in December 22, and I don't mind a price increase now... Seriously, if Porsche find that they can get more out of selling less cars at higher prices, I am fine with that. It only works as long as enough people think their prices are acceptable for what they get, but generally it seems so now doesn't it?

And regarding the tech development: I personally don't care about self-driving. I am more nervous supervising the car than when I do the driving myself. I am mostly in the group with f1eng there - but I do like ACC sometimes. That the general driving public prefers more autonomy I can understand, but I would expect many Porsche drivers to think differently, and that Porsche consequently also should.

Finally: I normally keep a car for many years (although there have been exceptions). I expect a Porsche, even my Taycan, to allow that. If I need, or find it worth it, to have a new battery before 2030, so be it. But I can imagine the rest of the car being both great to drive and fully reliable for longer than that - even though there may come even better models as the years go by.

I wouldn't mind driving a 1st gen Taycan for the next 20 years (maybe on solid state batteries by then?) if the car doesn't break down every 6 months with a huge bill attached.

In my limited past experience (only have one lifetime), every car has a moment or period when multiple components start to fail one after another. You either get rid of it when you think that moment has been reached or you endure (pay) through it. Eventually it will become reliable again.


When I don't feel attached to car, I keep it for 3 years max. When I REALLY like it... 14 years and counting.

 

[AutobahnGTS]

Seriously, if Porsche find that they can get more out of selling less cars at higher prices, I am fine with that. It only works as long as enough people think their prices are acceptable for what they get, but generally it seems so now doesn't it?

they are the experts, not me. Sales in the US for the Taycan were down 23% last year and deliveries globally by 16%. (https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/01/12...obal-sales-despite-big-drop-in-taycan-ev.html)
As aforementioned, they claim it’s only due to supply chain, although that would hardly explain a significant decline in Sales in the US.

Whatever the case may be, with lead times still long, Porsche increasing prices, while other companies are dropping prices, I’d be surprised if this will lead to rising sales. But I am very much hoping it turns out well for Porsche.

 

[Fish Fingers]

And regarding the tech development: I personally don't care about self-driving. I am more nervous supervising the car than when I do the driving myself. I am mostly in the group with f1eng there - but I do like ACC sometimes. That the general driving public prefers more autonomy I can understand, but I would expect many Porsche drivers to think differently, and that Porsche consequently also should.

Off topic I know, but....

I can't wait for more self driving cars (not for me - and most of you obviously ).

The standard of driving on UK roads is shocking now. It just seems to get worse and worse with people too lazy, too selfish or pre-occupied with other things to actually drive properly.

Sorry... Its a pet hate of mine.

Bring on the self driving cars I say - they will be better than 90% of drivers - even if the systems are utter cr@p!

 

[Hirschaj]

Bring on the self driving cars I say - they will be better than 90% of drivers - even if the systems are utter cr@p!

I couldn’t agree more. Horrible driving is on display daily where I live. I’m not saying I’m a great driver (I’m also not bad at it) but I’m definitely paying attention and focused on driving.

 

[SergeyIndy]

May I chime in on the off topic of self-driving, awareness, and general decline in driving focus, as I have a theory and it always enters my mind when I see this on the road, which is every day.

Awareness: Headlights Auto Switch is the biggest of them all to me since it is not fully automatic in rain/fog with manual clearly stating to turn your lights on Manually in those conditions. This awareness rule has been totally ignored because drivers rely on Auto and never think about it, as gauge clusters are super bright with all that led stuff on them, and DRL lights may light up the road enough to appear as headlights are on, where in good old days without all that (I have 2008 Acura TSX), when the dash looks dark, you flip the lights to On. I can say that anywhere I go, when rain/fog/dark conditions onset, no headlights manually are turned by the drivers, making it unsafe for other drivers and people trying to cross the road.

Decline: Most cars are SUVs/Crossovers around here, most of those SUVs are really big, with good old cars that were small with good feel and visibility all around pretty much gone (back to my perfect 2008 Acura TSX example). You hear a lot, people do not know how to drive, driving getting worse, guess what, this is probably the most frequent activity anyone does all day, how come everyone is bad and getting worse at this repetitive daily activity that takes you mostly around the same roads every day. Here is your answer, driving a car that wraps around you is different from driving a small bus with bad visibility, poor controls layout since they have to stuff the storage bins everywhere, and no idea where your wheels are.

Self-Driving?: Drivers do not maintain the cars is my main theory around bad driving when conditions turn to dark/fog/rain. Have you driven a rental and got in the rain and there is no way to wipe off the rain to see the road, that's my answer to why everything slows down to a crawl, and then you add to the fact that some do not know how to defog/defrost, and then worn tires do not grip so you have to go as slow as possible to make it. This is where Self-Driving I would agree would take over and just drive the car much better, but would the driver keep all the sensors and cameras clean and operational?

 

[whitex]

they are the experts, not me. Sales in the US for the Taycan were down 23% last year and deliveries globally by 16%. (https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/01/12...obal-sales-despite-big-drop-in-taycan-ev.html)
As aforementioned, they claim it’s only due to supply chain, although that would hardly explain a significant decline in Sales in the US.

Whatever the case may be, with lead times still long, Porsche increasing prices, while other companies are dropping prices, I’d be surprised if this will lead to rising sales. But I am very much hoping it turns out well for Porsche.

If they are supply constrained, increasing prices actually helps maximize profit. The time to drop prices is when they have more cars than customers, but that starts by first dealers offering discounts, then manufacturer incentives get introduced such as subsidized interest rates or residuals, cash-backs, or perhaps free options. MSRP lowering might happen on the next model year (MY25) if they don't manage to sell all they can produce.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

they are the experts, not me. Sales in the US for the Taycan were down 23% last year and deliveries globally by 16%. (https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/01/12...obal-sales-despite-big-drop-in-taycan-ev.html)
As aforementioned, they claim it’s only due to supply chain, although that would hardly explain a significant decline in Sales in the US.

Whatever the case may be, with lead times still long, Porsche increasing prices, while other companies are dropping prices, I’d be surprised if this will lead to rising sales. But I am very much hoping it turns out well for Porsche.

Just in case you may not have kept an eye on Taycan news in particular, the factory has been plagued by shortages on 12v batteries, Bose equipment, drivers to ferry cars around in ports and so on (ie "supply chain" issues by definition). And each new (model) year seems to bring up a new defect which translates into other shortages, and therefore delays.

They have also stated - repeatedly - that their order books are full, and reading the posts around here seems to substantiate that claim. They have also stated that they wish to go higher upmarket/become more exclusive - perhaps they recalled Ferry's quip that they should make all the cars they expect to sell minus one.

So while yes, deliveries are down, it's not because of a softening in demand; if they're intent on finding the breaking point, they can only do that by increasing their prices. Evidently they're not chasing sales expressed in units, but rather as total profit - and from this perspective last year was a banner one.

 

[xyeahtony]

They have also stated - repeatedly - that their order books are full, and reading the posts around here seems to substantiate that claim. They have also stated that they wish to go higher upmarket/become more exclusive - perhaps they recalled Ferry's quip that they should make all the cars they expect to sell minus one.

Bingo.


I was supposed to get my Taycan in April, now its looking like June. The demand is there. Porsche simply can't keep up. Supply/Demand rules dictate if demand is high and supply is low, you increase price to kill demand so you can have some "balance."

Just because deliveries are down doesn't mean demand is down. A lot of things happened in 2022...

 

[annieland]

Hey, as far as I'm concerned, I got a discount! Took delivery 4 days ago, 7.5% under MSRP, baby!

Who's gonna know?

Sponsored