Taycan Turbo S/GTS - CCB brake disc alternatives

[Conan]

Hi,

As these cars decline in price it no longer makes sense to pay half the cars value in changing one or two brake discs/rotors.

Does anyone know if there are any decent alternatives to buying the original PCCB discs for 10 000USD? I am thinking if there are 3rd party supplyers selling them much cheaper with decent quality intact? Or are there steel rotors that can fit directly without any other modifications? I have seen some conversion kits, but they also are priced at arround 10 000usd.

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[Dee]

Hi,

As these cars decline in price it no longer makes sense to pay half the cars value in changing one or two brake discs/rotors.

Does anyone know if there are any decent alternatives to buying the original PCCB discs for 10 000USD? I am thinking if there are 3rd party supplyers selling them much cheaper with decent quality intact? Or are there steel rotors that can fit directly without any other modifications? I have seen some conversion kits, but they also are priced at arround 10 000usd.

PCCBs don't wear that fast, unless you're doing the Lemans 24H.
They last a lifetime of a car.
Also, you don't use m that often cuz of the regen.
I only do a full brake test once a month but other than that I only use them in emergencies and light braking.
One other advantage of PCCBs: your white wheels don't get covered in brake dust and stay clean for much longer.
I just have them cuz they're cool.
And cuz it's standard on Turbo S.

But if you HAVE to change them, go check at Audi's as they use the exact same rotors.
Or at Brembo's directly.
A conversion to steel brakes is cheaper though.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Get them refurbished.
https://rebrakeusa.com/

 

[daveo4EV]

Hi,

As these cars decline in price it no longer makes sense to pay half the cars value in changing one or two brake discs/rotors.

Does anyone know if there are any decent alternatives to buying the original PCCB discs for 10 000USD? I am thinking if there are 3rd party supplyers selling them much cheaper with decent quality intact? Or are there steel rotors that can fit directly without any other modifications? I have seen some conversion kits, but they also are priced at arround 10 000usd.

it's highly highly unlikely (unless you are extensively tracking) that you'll wear the PCCB's enough to need to replace the rotors…the Taycan does not have the energy capacity to run long enough or hard enough to wear a set of PCCB brakes - even when tracking it - in fact the Taycan is so incapable of any long duration high performance that PCCB's are factually pointless on the vehicle.

the PCCB rotors are _NOT_ a concern - the ONLY viable reason to replace PCCB rotors would be damage (rare) not any foreseeable wear on a vehicle that can't run full title for much more than 15 min at a time…

there is not enough energy capacity in a 100 kWh battery to approach any sort of thermal endurance limits where you would've heated up PCCB's enough to worry about wearing them out.

who's telling you your Taycan needs new rotors?

NOTE: this "issue" with PCCB's has been debated/discussed for nearly a decade now - and yeah PCCB rotors are very very very expensive to service when the rotors wear out - fortunately most people are unable to wear PCCB rotors in any meaningful way unless you are using them with track applications - and even then it takes quite a bit of track usage to wear them to the point that they need replacement.

here is a thread discussing PCCB wear on a 911 GT3 that was basically a dedicated track car - and even after 4+ years of monthly track weekends only 1 of 4 rotors was actually due for replacement based on factory replacement metrics with a factory authorized measurement tool…

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3...-wear-data-sharedo90-tracked-gt3-991-2-a.html
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nice-vid-about-ceramic-brakes.10964/
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...-cost-to-replace-pccb-brakes-in-yellow.19395/
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/taycan-braking-for-more--how-the-taycan-gets-by-without-a-larger-brake-system—thanks-to-recuperation.14515/page-4#post-220012
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/freeze-date-coming-up-advice-re-pccb.8517/
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/4s-brake-upgrade-or-not.823/
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/weight-standard-vs-pccb-brakes.4232/

there are more threads on PCCB's on various car forums - and tons of discussion on rennlist for 911 PCCB's

unless you're tracking the car _A LOT_ it's difficult to imagine any scenario (other than damage based replacment) in which you need to replace a PCCB rotor. Especially on an EV with regen in which by Porsche's _OWN_ standard/statements decelerates 90% of the time using nothing but regeneration (which has no thermal impact on the friction brakes).

you're much much much more likely to need to spend money replacing the main battery before you'd need to do anything with the PCCB rotors - and it's hard to conceive of when the battery would actually need replacing.

NOTE; the one caveats on this is if you don't properly manage the brake pads - if you wear your PCCB brake pads down beyond reasonable wear limits and then damage the rotors due to running the brake pads down to the metal backing plate and are essentially scraping the rotors with a metal plate - but this is abuse/damage not any reasonable normal wear.

 

[daveo4EV]

read post #9, #15 and #43 of this thread…and then get back to me and tell me your concern about PCCB rotor replacement again

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nice-vid-about-ceramic-brakes.10964/

or search for any PCCB posts about Taycan and PCCB brakes by @f1eng (a former F1 racing engineer) and trust him - he's forgotten more about the actual facts of ceramic brakes than any of us will ever know…

unless you abuse them physically or damage them replacement of the PCCB rotors is a rare and unlikely unconcern for any viable usage scenario.

 

[Conan]

I am aware that they should not wear out. It is just because shit happends and that people are stupid. The rotors are fragile to knocks. I cannot trust a shop changing the tyres without bumping/slamming the rim onto the rotor.

If it is possible to get some links to reputable replacements, that does not set me back 10kUSD a piece, that would be highly appreciated. I do not need replacements now, but it would be relaxing to know there are options if anything should happen.

 

[daveo4EV]

I am aware that they should not wear out. It is just because people shit happening and People are stupid. The rotors are fragile to knocks. I cannot trust a shop changing the tyres without bumping/slamming the rim onto the rotor.

If it is possible to get some links to reputable replacements, that does not set me back 10kUSD a piece, that would be highly appreciated. I do not need replacements now, but it would be relativt to know there are options if anything should happen.

the only link I've seen for non OEM refurbishment or replacement is in this thread - the only other ceramic replacment low cost alternatives Ive' seen over the years was alternative PCCB non-OEM brakes and hte most common one has now gone out of business…surface transform were effective OEM replacement PCCB-like rotors that could be refurbished 3-8 times for each rotor - but according to many existing customers they've recently gone dark and are no longer providing any meaningful serivce to existing customers - https://www.surfacetransforms.com/

but they did not do OEM PCCB"s - they were replacement ceramic brakes that were designed to be refurbished - most/all OEM PCCB rotors are not known for refurbishment options.

conventional wisdom to date for OEM factory PCCB replacement has always been OEM factory is your only option - they are low volume, bespoke, and generally not replaced enough to have any sort of non-factory options

if your rotors are damaged I'd pursue either getting hte party who damaged them to repair them or a comprehensive insurance claim (no different that if my car was damaged due to a hail storm or road debris)

but yeah - there are few if any "low cost" options where PCCB's are concerned and you need a replacement rotor - the Taycan's PCCB front discs are HUGE and I doubt high volume or easy to source…

nearly a decade of world wide experience with 911 PCCB's and their associated costs boils down to:

if you can't stomach the replacment costs, maybe you should not be driving a vehicle with PCCB's - they are simply the most expensive brakes on the market - and they are so rare and so bespoke that there is virtually _NO_ cost effective non-factory alternative - and for a low volume unique car like Taycan - it's virtually impossible not to have to work with the OEM to replace a PCCB rotor.

good luck!

but the 99% likely outcome is you'll be stuck buying a replacement rotor from Porsche should you need to do so…

you should assume Porsche OEM will be your only source for replacement - to do otherwise is an unlikely scenario (it's not impossible). Any non-OEM alternative will be situation specific at the given time…and may be fleeting - there is no long term "alternatives" even to date with 911 PCCB's which are much higher volume and have legitimate wear concerns due to high-endurance track usage…Taycan is a much lower volume platform and much more bespoke in terms of PCCB rotor sizes and not used in track applications - so it's very very very unlikely there is enough of a market for _ANYONE_ to provide a viable alternative to OEM parts…

 

[daveo4EV]

I am aware that they should not wear out. It is just because people shit happening and People are stupid. The rotors are fragile to knocks. I cannot trust a shop changing the tyres without bumping/slamming the rim onto the rotor.

If it is possible to get some links to reputable replacements, that does not set me back 10kUSD a piece, that would be highly appreciated. I do not need replacements now, but it would be relativt to know there are options if anything should happen.

I do not take my PCCB vehicles to shops that are sloppy and unwilling to accept financial responsibility for damage to the rotors when working with the vehicle's wheels - this is another reason to avoid PCCB's and you're right…but PCCB's are so unique and bespoke it's an operating consideration for this type of vehicle…

I also don't get my tires swapped on my 911's with center-lock nuts because even most porsche dealers do not follow the documented CL wheel change proceedures…

if you own a PCCB vehicle or a Porsche vehicle with consumer Centerlock "nuts" - you have to be very very very careful about what mechanics you let touch your car and the mechanics have to be aware of the cost and their responsibilities for not following careful and proper procedures…

that makes Porsche's with PCCB's and Centerlock's "special" and a legitmate reason to avoid ownership or take personal responsibility for the damages caused by run of the mill mechanics and their lack of responsibility…

if you can't handle the costs associated with sloppy work with PCCB and centerlocks, perhaps that vehicle isn't the right vehicle for your personal ownership…because those two features of Porsche vehicle's make ownership and potential costs _VERY EXPENSIVE_ because there are NO alternative parts, and their are no reduced costs options…

 

[daveo4EV]

I am aware that they should not wear out. It is just because people shit happening and People are stupid. The rotors are fragile to knocks. I cannot trust a shop changing the tyres without bumping/slamming the rim onto the rotor.

If it is possible to get some links to reputable replacements, that does not set me back 10kUSD a piece, that would be highly appreciated. I do not need replacements now, but it would be relativt to know there are options if anything should happen.

my honest opinion is that if this is your concern PCCB's are not the right product for you

because the even money bet is that if it comes to pass you have to replace a Taycan PCCB rotors - there will be NO alternative other than to give Porsche the money for the replacement OEM part (best case will be finding a "used" part off of a donor Taycan for slightly less money)

but to assume/plan or hope for a lower cost alternative is a very very low probability outcome- not impossible, but very unlikely.

owning a PCCB based vehicle comes with a certain set of expectations and you have to be willing to swallow PCCB's repair costs should that day come…if you're not willing to bear the risk of that cost you have an option not to own a vehicle with those particluar type of brakes.

 

[daveo4EV]

I had to argue with an insurance company that it was the cost of repairing my car back to factory spec when my PCCB 911 brakes were damaged in an accident that was the other driver's fault and I demanded PCCB OEM replacement parts…they were super duper unhappy with that prospect and fought hard against the OEM replacement parts costs…

the insuracne company was _NOT_ happy and I had to hire a lawyer to argue my case - which they eventually capituatlated, but the insurance adjuster on the other side was convinced I was committing fraud and that there was a scam going on…

at the end of the day even an insurance company couldn't swallow the cost of PCCB replacement parts but they capitulated but fought hard to find alterntiaves and explain me to that it could not possibly be as expensive as it was and that there was no alternative…PCCB brakes are bespoke, unique, and expensive and one can only hope you don't have to repair them - but that's all you can do - hope.

 

[Dee]

The rotors are fragile to knocks

Nope.
They aren't as fragile as you think.
You'll scratch your wheels far more easily than you will damage or crack your rotors.

@daveo4EV maybe there's something like "too much information"??

 

[daveo4EV]

Nope.
They aren't as fragile as you think.
You'll scratch your wheels far more easily than you will damage or crack your rotors.

@daveo4EV maybe there's something like "too much information"??

probably…

but in my defense - I'm bored, at sea, day 2 of 3 sea days returning to our home port to get off my lovely cruise to head home before XMAS

but I'm abusing ship's internet and had nothing else to do…

it's an internet forum and the forum "ignore" option is powerful!!

 

[Conan]

Thanks for the replys. Yeah, maybe its just not the car for me. Because I dont know about any shop that is not sloppy. People admitting to have caused damage is also basicly non existent in my world. If a shop says the rotors was chipped or vibrating before the car was handed over to them, it is almost impossible to win (Word against word).

But if I have understood correctly there are other cars that have identical rotors, that can increase the odds of finding used ones, like Audi RS6? Are there any other cars? I found some used rotors from a RS6, but they were rusty, so apparently not the ceramic version..

And there is no direct fit for any steel rotors? For example changing the rotors on one axle to steel if needed.

 

[d00d]

Check with GiroDisk that does Ceramic to Iron conversions, maybe they'd be interested in doing a Taycan specific hat to fit an existing rotor of the correct dimensions.

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