Can you also get Apple maps on driver display and HUD with a J1 Taycan?

[Jonathan S.]

Although I greatly appreciate all the technical and business insights in this thread, the following comment:

Porsche has lost their install.exe floppy disk.

... made me smile the most, although also made a bit sad to realize how old I must be now to remember that (especially the 5 1/4 version, after which the 3 1/2 version seemed like the most stunning innovation at the time.).

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[whitex]

their only saving grace is the 911 - but rather than compete with china they are begging/pleading for the EU to roll back EV goals and let them make ICE motors again…

To be honest, ICE or EV, I think this is irrelevant. Porsche is falling behind in non-drivetrain features (infotainment, usability, integration with other electronics, reliability of all these, and agility to keep them updated). Cars are becoming smartphones on wheels. Smartphones are outdated after 2 years. Porsche EV tech is not leading edge, but I don't think it's their biggest hurdle to compete, though the power delivered by EV drivetrains does diminish the ICE engine marketing. All they got left is - ok power at high price but keeping the car light, so less power is needed for same performance and handles much better around a track.

 

[whitex]

I remember reading all of this 40 years ago. The Supra and 300 Zx were going to wipe the floor with Porsche. Hasn’t happened yet.

Not quite the same thing. If Porsche can prosper on selling dedicated track cars, they'll be ok, since you don't need fancy infotainment, remote cabin preheating, navigation, etc. However if Porsche need the revenue from daily drivers which double as fun spirited driving with occasional track (so all Macans, Cayennes, Taycans, some 911's, some 718's), they are going to fall behind fast. There are certain features that people will simply start expecting from cars to make them on par with other daily drivers. It's like when cars started having air conditioning, air-bags, radio. Sure, there were people willing to buy cars without those for a while, but over time they sold less and less. Even Lambos come with there features nowadays, even though they tried selling stripped down (so lighter) cars to customers at first, before they gave in. I think you can still order a stripped down Lambo without air conditioning or radio (I think airbags became mandatory to be road legal), but the percentage of cars ordered in that configuration is tiny. Unfortunately adding A/C or airbags, or decent radio was much easier than adding good software to the car.

 

[whitex]

Where are they so far for 2024?

 

[whitex]

Although I greatly appreciate all the technical and business insights in this thread, the following comment:



... made me smile the most, although also made a bit sad to realize how old I must be now to remember that (especially the 5 1/4 version, after which the 3 1/2 version seemed like the most stunning innovation at the time.).

I'm pretty sure it was install.bat which usually launched setup.exe
Oups, I just dated myself. Actually, I'm even older than that - I grew up on home computers with as little as 16KB of RAM (not a typo) and used audio cassettes for storage. We had fun games on those computers too. Today's typical home computer has a million (actually 1,048,567) times more memory.

 

[chun]

Where are they so far for 2024?

Don't think @Vercingetorix will answer you, but I will:

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...wngrades-earnings-outlook-fy-2024-2024-07-09/
https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/passenger-cars/porsche/worldwide

Revenue is not even stagnating, which would be horrible for every chairman and investor. It's actually going down by -0.75%; putting it below 2023.

MY25 taycan sales have little influence over this data, but i doubt 2025 will be better than this, when you account for the already dimishing chinese market (29-41% less sells in china in the last 6 months)

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

Taycan's not selling cause it's overpriced by a large factor…IMHO $210k for a GTS trim level sports sedan EV is simply ridiculous…software is not the issue for lack of sales (Yet!)

But I agree with your overall vector - Porsche is in trouble - software is one of many issues/head-winds they are facing - and so far they are not rising to the challenge IMHO

time will tell how this goes - but I don't see Porsche mastering the new world as quickly as I believe is necessary to succeed…

we're coming up on a 60+ day "delay" in Porsche's ability to deliver my already manufactured and already shipped 2024 Macan Turbo EV - and they have no ETA as to when I can complete purchase and/or delivery…and I'm getting to the point where I can no longer wait and will have to consider alternatives…

they will lose us one by one until it becomes a problem…

no one is failure to purchase a Taycan because of the software (yet) - Porsche has priced outside the realm of reasonable even for their superior mechanical driving experience…I simply can't spend $200k+ on an EV that's equal/slower than a $50k Model 3 Performance

the difference in price between my Macan Turbo Ev and GTS Taycan is $85k delta…that's an entire Macan 4S EV - the Taycan isn't worth that to me - that's a problem for Porsche because I'm an easy target (sucker) - and if they can't convince me - well I believe that's a problem.

I have to agree, Porsche is in massive trouble in the next 5 years, and we will see some serious pain in the next couple years. Think about the EV revolution, and what it means to the Porsche brand and their technical expertise.

All of their vast knowledge, experience and their tried and true development patterns of building incrementally on the best ICE platform in the market is essentially gone. No more Porsche engines in the future (other than a small niche market perhaps). Their engines were arguably the best and most sophisticated element of their technology and value proposition. (As a long-term Taycan driver, I sorely miss the wailing of a Porsche motor at full song.) Light and nimble cars with razor sharp handling cannot be done with EV's.

Porsche and Germany clearly can't keep up with the US and China/others in software, which is becoming one of the most important aspects of automobile development and quality. I'm not sure what Porsche and the German auto industry will do... ?

 

[Watchesandburgers]

Although I greatly appreciate all the technical and business insights in this thread, the following comment:
... made me smile the most, although also made a bit sad to realize how old I must be now to remember that (especially the 5 1/4 version, after which the 3 1/2 version seemed like the most stunning innovation at the time.).

And then I had a Zip drive. 100MB! On a removable disk! And then the 1TB version!!! ?

Sorry, this was supposed to be a Porsche discussion. Sigh.

 

[daveo4EV]

Light and nimble cars with razor sharp handling cannot be done with EV's.

…until there is a production worthy alternative to industry standard LiON batteries…

_IF_ (I think when but I'll give everyone the "if") batteries can be 60-80 kWh for 700 lbs or less then EV's would be lighter vs. equivilent ICE vehicles and vastly more compact motors with HP densities impossible with liquid fuel vehicle's…but so far that has not materialized but there are prototypes already in production viability testing

the exhaust note however is gone…

Porsche's/Germany's excellent was in their "mechanisms" - EV's remove the "mechanism" from the equation and _ANYONE_ can build/source a reliable HP EV motor with a reliable mechanism…

drive train sorted! now we're left with the other parts of the vehicle which are increasingly/exclusively software based - and then there is integration with the modern digital world of the driver - which is entirely software based and rapidly changing/evolving which defy's and destroy's one's ability to make long term plans - light weight agile nimble processes are required to maintain relevance - iterate or die is the mantra…ISO 9000 QA processes are none of those things…and iteration is discouraged because it means change.

Porsche is Rolex
EV's are an appleWatch - keeping time is no longer the main focus - and the "art" of the mechanism is absent entirely

I _LOVE_ me a good watch mechanism - but living in the modern world the mechanism alone is becoming (or has become) insufficient.

but I agree with Vim 99% - Porsche is in trouble and software and value proposition is their main problem going forward…I'm sad.

 

[daveo4EV]

And then I had a Zip drive. 100MB! On a removable disk! And then the 1TB version!!! ?

Sorry, this was supposed to be a Porsche discussion. Sigh.

not to devolve the thread - but Apple ][ /Atari 800 ERA here!!! and all the tech associated with that generation is where I started - I apparently missed turning in university level Computer Science 101 class work via punch cards by only one university quarter - my incoming class was the first class to use PDP 11's with terminals for our class work vs. punch-cards & teletypes…

tech moves quickly and has no regard for the past…

 

[Jonathan S.]

I'm pretty sure it was install.bat which usually launched setup.exe
Oups, I just dated myself. Actually, I'm even older than that - I grew up on home computers with as little as 16KB of RAM (not a typo) and used audio cassettes for storage. We had fun games on those computers too. Today's typical home computer has a million (actually 1,048,567) times more memory.

I remember those computers that used tape recorders!
I would look at them with awe at the local RadioShack and read the intriguing reviews in Consumer Reports.
However, we never bought one since we could never figure out what we were supposed to do with one.

The mystery was enhanced by how my elementary school library had such a computer for students, which was quite advanced given that I finished sixth grade in 1979.
But the only apparent purpose of that computer was for the librarian to warn "DO NOT TOUCH COMPUTER!" should any student get within a certain distance.
This was even funnier given that she said it with a stereotypical Japanese accent.
My brother was seven grades behind me, and during his seven years at that same elementary school the same librarian would issue the same proximity-alert warning (perhaps for exactly the same computer, which if so would have become a museum-worthy piece by then).

And then I had a Zip drive. 100MB! On a removable disk! And then the 1TB version!!! ?

Sorry, this was supposed to be a Porsche discussion. Sigh.

Yes, my wife for years kept all her valuable GIS files (from the last time she worked) on those removable zip drive disks somewhere in our house!
I think we finally discarded them?
(I looked quickly now out of curiosity yet couldn't find them.)

And alas, much of Porsche impressive technical prowess might become just as outdated...

 

[Jonathan S.]

not to devolve the thread - but Apple ][ /Atari 800 ERA here!!! and all the tech associated with that generation is where I started - I apparently missed turning in university level Computer Science 101 class work via punch cards by only one university quarter - my incoming class was the first class to use PDP 11's with terminals for our class work vs. punch-cards & teletypes…

tech moves quickly and has no regard for the past…

Atari 800 instead of the Commodore VIC-20, really?

A few years later, my high school programming classes had a computer lab comprising Apple IIe computers with Z-80 cards which sure seemed like hot stuff at the time!

 

[tigerbalm]

Where are they so far for 2024?

I don't think Ireland is a good representative market as it is so small and expensive cars are highly taxed (up to 65% of purchase price).

But it does publish very clear figures for every car sold in the country. So far this year, Porsche sales are down 16% on last year.

Taycan sales are down 60% – no hiding from that! Although, I think part of the reason is second-hand market has just opened up with three year old cars available and they are moving quiet quickly due to low-ish prices.

All figures from https://stats.beepbeep.ie/

Irish registration plates have the year and "year half" on them. So cars sold between Jan and June this year would have a plate like: 241-D-12345. And July to Dec is: 242-D-12345.

This switch in half year causes lulls and highs in Jan and July each year as people are sensitive to having the "newest" date on their new car.

But there was no July bump this year for Taycan.

 

[Vicelow]

I was in touch with Porsche Switzerland since I wanted to know about next generation CarPlay and was told this:

Translation: „Yes, exactly. This is the extension, e.g. of Apple Maps, into the instrument cluster. With the new software cluster, the Porsche Taycan will also receive the integration of Apple CarPlay in the instrument cluster (extended maps).“

No idea if or when this will happen…

 

[whitex]

Light and nimble cars with razor sharp handling cannot be done with EV's.

True, but how many people are willing to pay high premium for light and nimble? Track cars sure, but that is a limited market. Daily drivers, much less. In the US, the top sales categories for ICE cars are trucks and SUV's, where light and nimble does not really factor in. Even for Porsche, Macan is their top seller, not sure a lot of people are willing to pay extra for light and nimble SUV, especially if the light-and-nimble has a lot less power, torque and acceleration, making the heavy EV version feel more powerful.

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